Building Guitar Bodies, Need CNC Router, Pos Plainer Etc :-)

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poisitivek
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Building Guitar Bodies, Need CNC Router, Pos Plainer Etc :-)

Postby poisitivek » Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:35 pm

High everyone.

Im starting a guitar body building, cottage business and wanted to find some equipment. Now I could buy new, but as a recently poor and indebted student (soft violins playing in background) I would prefer to buy second hand. That way I can sell up if it all goes t*ts up and not force myself into the clutches of asking you 'Would you like fries with that sir" in the near future.

Im looking for a 'good' quality CNC router. Im not sure what to call it exactly but, it would go on a table and cut bodies out of slabs of wood. Ive sniffed around and found something like this

Heiz S-1000 CNC Machine (with 5-Channel Controller)

It seems like a good deal (sorry this is not spamming, and your perfectly free to shoot me for doing so) although, I need to know what else I will need to make it run, apart from a computer.

I will or may, also need a planer, and thickneser (is that what you call it?) to get the bought timber into the size and level I need to then CNC off. Or to cut that process out, will most lumber places provide this service. if so I wont need the plainer etc because to start with, it will probably be cost effective not to.

Now, I never took that class at school, I think it was called 'tech' or 'smoking in overalls behind the shed' so I have almost no experience with machines, and wood, but ive played guitar for many years, and would love to get into this type of business.

Please if you guys have any equipment, or advice, any links to sites that sell seconds, or auctions of interest please do tell. Im based in Midhurst west Sussex.

Best Regards

Rich

mark270981
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Re: Building Guitar Bodies, Need CNC Router, Pos Plainer Etc

Postby mark270981 » Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:07 pm

I must have been one of those slow kids then? Now I am just slow!!
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Re: Building Guitar Bodies, Need CNC Router, Pos Plainer Etc

Postby papakev » Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:54 pm

isn't CNC a bit OTT for low volume guitar manufacture?

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Re: Building Guitar Bodies, Need CNC Router, Pos Plainer Etc

Postby mark270981 » Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:08 pm

papakev wrote:isn't CNC a bit OTT for low volume guitar manufacture?


Having a cnc to manufacture anything is ace! Look up cnc guitar on YouTube
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Re: Building Guitar Bodies, Need CNC Router, Pos Plainer Etc

Postby papakev » Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:24 pm

yes, it cool i know
i'm sure it would be perfect for a guitar body, i meant though....mainly..
from a financial perspective on a cottage industry start up in a competitive, market. (self declared as being skint)
for someone with no woodwork experience etc etc.

I'd have thought that the body blank is the easiest bit .. compared with getting a good finish, all the inlays and the general construction. -- and getting a good feel and tone.

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Re: Building Guitar Bodies, Need CNC Router, Pos Plainer Etc

Postby mark270981 » Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:50 pm

papakev wrote:yes, it cool i know
i'm sure it would be perfect for a guitar body, i meant though....mainly..
from a financial perspective on a cottage industry start up in a competitive, market. (self declared as being skint)
for someone with no woodwork experience etc etc.

I'd have thought that the body blank is the easiest bit .. compared with getting a good finish, all the inlays and the general construction. -- and getting a good feel and tone.


I wholeheartedly agree with you, I just wanted to point out how ace they are
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tusses
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Re: Building Guitar Bodies, Need CNC Router, Pos Plainer Etc

Postby tusses » Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:33 am

two sides to this ...

1st , as has been mentioned here, and in your other thread. The business plan isn't quite right , both financially and your woodworking experience. It's not just about pressing go, and waiting for a guitar to come out the other end ! you will need to know about wood and it's characteristics, how it moves with various grains (very important for guitar necks ! ) how to work it . Glues and finishes etc. etc.

the other side is the machine.

You don't get much change from £10k for a decent quality machine. By that I mean rigid and designed to work and keep accuracy over a period of years.
for £3-5K, you are getting basically a 'hobby' self build/kit type of quality, that wont be rigid and give you the speeds and feeds correct for your cutters and mills. (it will work at slower speeds though)
You also mention second hand ... a good description of CNC machines, is that they are like trucks .. great when new, but they have a hard and wearing life and are not the best thing to buy second hand. Especially if you don't like 'tinkering' with machinery. Both second hand, and the cheaper machines will need regular maintenance and setting up/putting back square , adjusting bearing preloads etc.etc.


as mark said though, CNC's are ace ! they can do a lot of repetitive work and fancy stuff once you have figured how to use them.

You can also use the CNC as a plainer / thicknesser / jointer /router / cross cut saw etc...., so could get by without buying those to start with.

HTH
Rich

poisitivek
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Re: Building Guitar Bodies, Need CNC Router, Pos Plainer Etc

Postby poisitivek » Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:56 pm

tusses wrote:two sides to this ...

1st , as has been mentioned here, and in your other thread. The business plan isn't quite right , both financially and your woodworking experience. It's not just about pressing go, and waiting for a guitar to come out the other end ! you will need to know about wood and it's characteristics, how it moves with various grains (very important for guitar necks ! ) how to work it . Glues and finishes etc. etc.

the other side is the machine.

You don't get much change from £10k for a decent quality machine. By that I mean rigid and designed to work and keep accuracy over a period of years.
for £3-5K, you are getting basically a 'hobby' self build/kit type of quality, that wont be rigid and give you the speeds and feeds correct for your cutters and mills. (it will work at slower speeds though)
You also mention second hand ... a good description of CNC machines, is that they are like trucks .. great when new, but they have a hard and wearing life and are not the best thing to buy second hand. Especially if you don't like 'tinkering' with machinery. Both second hand, and the cheaper machines will need regular maintenance and setting up/putting back square , adjusting bearing preloads etc.etc.


as mark said though, CNC's are ace ! they can do a lot of repetitive work and fancy stuff once you have figured how to use them.

You can also use the CNC as a plainer / thicknesser / jointer /router / cross cut saw etc...., so could get by without buying those to start with.

HTH
Rich



Hmmm yes, its sounds from wht your saying, that there is a lot of complications. Still on the other hand, none that cant be overcome.

I would like to mention that whilst I appreciate the posts that bang on about woods etc, I am probably already 'overly qualified' in most areas in regards to knowing how guitars are built, as I have a very good understanding of archtops. Im sorry but I dont see it hard to bang out solid body guitars. There is little art in doing so, but perhaps thats were I would like to excel.

So without sounding rude, please could your replies be relevant to my question and not opinion about my skills/knowledge etc.

I would like to point out that the post I am quoting here, is exactly the type of response that im looking for. On topic, and filled with good advice about the equipment im looking for.

I could buy blank bodies, or I could make them in my shed too. However im looking to start a business and would like to produce at least 5/10 bodies a week. Without something like a cnc I cannot do that, and spray, and finish etc.

Even if I bought blanks, I would need sanders and saws to cut the shape, which would probably set me back at least £2,000 anyway so why not go the whole hog.

I have found this and the guy reckons I should be all set for just under £5,000 including everything but computer. What do you think?

http://www.prototools.co.uk/shop/custom ... 8507&cat=0

Made in Germany, pretty heavy solid construction good parts and 2 year warranty. Ses theres not much to go wrong with it, comes with free kessel W1050

Cheers :-)

poisitivek
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Re: Building Guitar Bodies, Need CNC Router, Pos Plainer Etc

Postby poisitivek » Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:01 pm

I do apologise if I gave the impression I know nothing. I know a lot about woods in regards to guitars. I also know a lot about construction. Otherwise you would be right. Buying a cnc would be extravagant. On the other hand, using a cnc lets a novice compete with a pro in about 1 hour, with much less work once competent int the machine and its application.

If your trying to build a strat, there is no art to carving one from hand, and with todays tech, no point. Its a solid bit of wood, that cant be replicated by hand, as well as it can by machine. I can also use laser scanning to replicate exactly things that I wont be able to do by hand.

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Re: Building Guitar Bodies, Need CNC Router, Pos Plainer Etc

Postby sainty » Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:02 pm

poisitivek wrote:
tusses wrote:two sides to this ...

1st , as has been mentioned here, and in your other thread. The business plan isn't quite right , both financially and your woodworking experience. It's not just about pressing go, and waiting for a guitar to come out the other end ! you will need to know about wood and it's characteristics, how it moves with various grains (very important for guitar necks ! ) how to work it . Glues and finishes etc. etc.

the other side is the machine.

You don't get much change from £10k for a decent quality machine. By that I mean rigid and designed to work and keep accuracy over a period of years.
for £3-5K, you are getting basically a 'hobby' self build/kit type of quality, that wont be rigid and give you the speeds and feeds correct for your cutters and mills. (it will work at slower speeds though)
You also mention second hand ... a good description of CNC machines, is that they are like trucks .. great when new, but they have a hard and wearing life and are not the best thing to buy second hand. Especially if you don't like 'tinkering' with machinery. Both second hand, and the cheaper machines will need regular maintenance and setting up/putting back square , adjusting bearing preloads etc.etc.


as mark said though, CNC's are ace ! they can do a lot of repetitive work and fancy stuff once you have figured how to use them.

You can also use the CNC as a plainer / thicknesser / jointer /router / cross cut saw etc...., so could get by without buying those to start with.

HTH
Rich



Hmmm yes, its sounds from wht your saying, that there is a lot of complications. Still on the other hand, none that cant be overcome.

I would like to mention that whilst I appreciate the posts that bang on about woods etc, I am probably already 'overly qualified' in most areas in regards to knowing how guitars are built, as I have a very good understanding of archtops. Im sorry but I dont see it hard to bang out solid body guitars. There is little art in doing so, but perhaps thats were I would like to excel.

So without sounding rude, please could your replies be relevant to my question and not opinion about my skills/knowledge etc.

I would like to point out that the post I am quoting here, is exactly the type of response that im looking for. On topic, and filled with good advice about the equipment im looking for.

I could buy blank bodies, or I could make them in my shed too. However im looking to start a business and would like to produce at least 5/10 bodies a week. Without something like a cnc I cannot do that, and spray, and finish etc.

Even if I bought blanks, I would need sanders and saws to cut the shape, which would probably set me back at least £2,000 anyway so why not go the whole hog.

I have found this and the guy reckons I should be all set for just under £5,000 including everything but computer. What do you think?

http://www.prototools.co.uk/shop/custom ... 8507&cat=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Made in Germany, pretty heavy solid construction good parts and 2 year warranty. Ses theres not much to go wrong with it, comes with free kessel W1050

Cheers :-)



Hi and welcome to the forum.

It can be annoying when threads get taken off topic can't it?

I have a CNC and would also like to make a guitar, not that I can play, it's probably a very useful machine for it if you can get to grips with it.

Anyway, tell us about your shed. How big is it? Is it secure?

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Re: Building Guitar Bodies, Need CNC Router, Pos Plainer Etc

Postby tusses » Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:34 pm

I may be wrong ... but are you just looking for someone to agree with you ?

I'm sure if you post enough times on enough forums, then someone will say

" yeah ! that's a great Idea ! do it just like that !!! " :D

but if you post here... there are mostly people in business woodworking for a living, and you will get told how it is, along with usefull advice ... not how you want it to be ;)

the link you gave, showed little specs for the machine - of the important kind - which would lead me to view it with caution.

It looks cheap (to me), and whilst it might be able to manage to do some CNC work, I'll refer back to my original post :)

regards
Rich

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Re: Building Guitar Bodies, Need CNC Router, Pos Plainer Etc

Postby stevep » Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:43 pm

I think it's a great idea.
Image
£97.10 inc vat and delivery, and that's painted. They may well come from China, but they are pretty good quality for the price. I wonder what the wholesale price would be? Probably around the £50 mark I should think - take away the cost of the wood and the paint and you're left with jack.

Don't forget that to get the blank ready for your cnc machine you're going to need a bandsaw, a fairly big planer and thicknesser, and a 3 phase supply to run them. Good luck.

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Re: Building Guitar Bodies, Need CNC Router, Pos Plainer Etc

Postby billyredbull » Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:17 pm

I have a Radcarver which would suit you, it is easy to operate you just fix the block you want to carve and the body of guitar next to it and copy it, then do the same with the neck. I bought this from America for $1000 + another 200 to get it through customs. I have had it about a year and never used it so it is still new I would like £700 plus delivery for it. Check these Radcaver out on ebay and get back to me if interested.

P.S It takes longer to set this Dupli, Carver up than it does to use it.


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