Titebond VS PU glue for external joinery

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Louis1984
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Titebond VS PU glue for external joinery

Postby Louis1984 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:31 pm

Getting sick of paying around £200.00 for 24 tubes of PU glue.

I mainly make windows and doors. What does everyone else use?
For £200 I could probably supply titebond for the rest of my life.
With everything going up in price I need to start thinking a bit more canny.

Bighat
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Re: Titebond VS PU glue for external joinery

Postby Bighat » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:19 pm

D4 ever build, or soudal (is that how you spell it?) PU for me. Titebond 3 is the only glue I've ever had a joint failure on. To be fair it was cold in the workshop, but I've used the d4 in colder conditions, and its held up fine. Everyone else loves titebond though, so it was probably just a bad lot, maybe frozen in the felivery van or something? The small bottles are nice for applying with though.

siafins
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Re: Titebond VS PU glue for external joinery

Postby siafins » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:58 am

Not a fan of the Titebond 3 myself but the red and blue Titebonds are good. £200 seems a bit steep!

Try https://www.adkwik.co.uk/index.php?rout ... ry&path=73 Ive used a Wurth PU as well which is quite good and doesnt foam as much. Think it came down to just under £4 a tube.

fraxinus
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Re: Titebond VS PU glue for external joinery

Postby fraxinus » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:15 pm

A Rep was showing me the PU glue that is applied that is applied with a foam gun, which if you're using it regularly could be worthwhile otherwise you'd have to clean the gun after using it.

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Re: Titebond VS PU glue for external joinery

Postby Meccarroll » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:50 pm

Louis1984 wrote:Getting sick of paying around £200.00 for 24 tubes of PU glue.

I mainly make windows and doors. What does everyone else use?
For £200 I could probably supply titebond for the rest of my life.
With everything going up in price I need to start thinking a bit more canny.


Can I ask why you are using PU glue?

I have used PU glue once or twice but can't say I would think of using it for Joinery, sashes or doors.

When I make frames (door or window) I simply screw them together and use a bit of silicone in the joint to keep any water out. I started using this method about 30 years ago and have not had any problems, I was introduced to the idea by a first class joiner. The joints do have to be spot on otherwise they will pull out of square under the force applied by the screw pulling the shoulders together. An advantage of doing it this way is you can transport and assemble on site easily, it's easy to manoeuvre unassembled frames through buildings, site assembly is done in a couple of minutes.

I don't do a lot of joinery but when I do I quite like evo stick, pva, waterproof glue, it's a bit expensive but has never failed so is cheap in the long run.

Mark

Louis1984
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Re: Titebond VS PU glue for external joinery

Postby Louis1984 » Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:48 am

I don't think I could ever come to terms with using silicone to join window frames.

I used to solely use PVA and as far as I'm aware, had no issues. Then I discovered PU and frankly have gone solely with that.

PU glue is great. It's extremely good for end grain gluing as it will foam up into the fibres. It comes in tubes and applied via a gun so application is extremely quick and there is zero wastage, you just put the lid back on. I'm almost talking myself back into using it here. I think I shall simply save it purely for the gluing of sash's and doors. Everything else I shall now use Titebond 2. I think the titebond will probably be more than suitable for sash's also. But I shall ease into the idea. But for the joining of frames and anything else, a cheaper glue shall suffice.

hercule
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Re: Titebond VS PU glue for external joinery

Postby hercule » Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:30 am

I'm not a fan of using screws or nails on exterior joinery frames. Water can wick up a screw thread or nail shank. I know the victorians did it. Just a through tenon. With a dab of glue. Even a star dowel through the face. Paint the underside of all joinery. Should help keep rot away.

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Re: Titebond VS PU glue for external joinery

Postby Meccarroll » Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:16 pm

hercule wrote:I'm not a fan of using screws or nails on exterior joinery frames. Water can wick up a screw thread or nail shank. I know the victorians did it. Just a through tenon. With a dab of glue. Even a star dowel through the face. Paint the underside of all joinery. Should help keep rot away.


I use stub tenons sealed with silicone and screwed from top and bottom with screws. Pre drill squirt a dab of silicone in the hole then screw home. Never had a rotten window in 30 years. I do treat all my external joinery with preservative as a matter of course which must help.

I used to glue all my frames and found it easier than how I make them now because when I glued the joints if the joints were a fag paper out of square the glue could simply fill the gap and all I needed to do was lightly cramp the joint until the glue set and held the joint in position. If you screw the joint together it is constantly under compression and pulled tightly together, if a joint is slightly out of square it will put the frame out of square to match the joint so you have to be spot on. Silicone does not set hard so stays flexible with the joint it's also waterproof unlike most glues which can break down if saturated. I don't screw my frame together because it's easier or a cop out, I do it because it a proven method that works. I have repaired and spliced dozens of frames that have been glued together so I don't think there is an argument that glue is any better. Each to their own method so long as it works.

Mark

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Re: Titebond VS PU glue for external joinery

Postby Leveller2911 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:33 pm

For external Joinery I'd only ever use Cascamite for mortice and tenons etc but do glue up door panels etc with PU. I use the Lumberjack 5min PU and never had any issues with it but wouldn't use it near any mouldings for obvious reasons... I've never come across using silicone on a joint and not sure I like the idea, silicones and paints don't mix in my opinion but each to his own.

I make a point is coating the whole tenon with cascamite especially the end grain, through tenons everytime, pilot drill either side of the mortice and countersink both sides so when the screw goes in the end grain and pulls out some of the grain the countersink makes sure the joint screws up nice n tight. Only time I ever use star dowels is for stormproof sashes.

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Re: Titebond VS PU glue for external joinery

Postby Meccarroll » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:10 pm

The two firms my father (now retired) worked for, some odd 60+ years ago, used only paint and wedges to seal and hold the joints of doors, sashes and their frames. The mortice and tenon joints in the doors were painted then put together together with wedges to draw them tight.

Silicone is used to seal around the double glazing units used in wooden windows and doors and is quite commonly used for both painted and stained work and was one of the recommended methods recognised by the BSI (may still be).

Modern glues/materials have allowed woodworkers to explore new methods of jointing traditional joinery items using new techniques and materials, most of them work very well (laminated beams in swimming pools is a good example of how modern glues have expanded the use of wood in construction).

I think the main ingredient in quality joinery is good craftsmanship.

Louis I'd happily to use pva, pu or cascamite glue for frames, I'd be happy with quite an array of modern materials so long as I could be sure the joint would not fail.


Mark

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Re: Titebond VS PU glue for external joinery

Postby podengo » Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:43 pm

I use PU for gluing sashes and doors. I use mainly accoya so have to use PU

I buy it in a 750ml size pots. They also sell the foam type.

http://www.thegluepeople.co.uk/v1/html/ ... id-d4.html

Most large manufacturers use D4 pva, for joinery.

I cant see any point gluing frames. We paint the joint with end grain sealer and screw together.


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