Tulipwood or unsorted

General wood working tips, tricks and ideas. Anything that doesn't belong elsewhere can be discussed here.
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Tulipwood or unsorted

Postby thatsnotafestool » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:39 pm

Does anyone have a preference for one or the other ? Application are internal doors (painted), architraves, skirting.

TIA
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Re: Tulipwood or unsorted

Postby bdshim » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:47 pm

Have always found tulip can move alot but you get the knots with pine I find pine ok obviously never use the heart

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Re: Tulipwood or unsorted

Postby davidpidge » Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:46 am

Isn't tulip a bit soft for doors? I use it for cabinets but they shouldn't get as much abuse in theory.

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Re: Tulipwood or unsorted

Postby thatsnotafestool » Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:50 am

Thanks for the comments, guys. Interesting that the company that I contacted for some compare'n'contrast pricing said that they used tulipwood because it was stable !

Any ideas on relative pricing between the two...it's been a long, long time since I did any woodworking in anger.
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Re: Tulipwood or unsorted

Postby Leveller2911 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:33 pm

I've never found Tulipwood to move much. In fact Its one of the most stable timbers you can get around heat sources such as AGA's ,Radiators etc.

It is soft and doesn't like being knocked too much but a good paint finish can help protect it.

I never use softwood pine for internal doors because its so unstable and rarely stays straight and it shrinks badly. I'm doing some internal doors and linings at the moment and using tulipwood.Currently paying around £630-00 cubic metre for 38mm and £665-00 for 50mm from Brooks Bros.

Wouldn't have a clue about unsorted Joinery redwood prices .

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Re: Tulipwood or unsorted

Postby Jonathan » Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:49 pm

I use tulip all the time for mouldings, never had a complaint of movment, last year my suppliers ran out of tulip so I used pine. Fitters told me it was a nightmare to use and not to use it again.
Don't do many internal doors but the few I have done have had no problems.
Small doors I always use tulip and MDF

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Re: Tulipwood or unsorted

Postby Tomyjoiner » Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:31 pm

I've just made 2 6 panel doors out of unsorted and a sliding barn style door out of tulip (see post) i use tulip a lot for kitchens an doors and wouldn't really say it moves a lot not compared to red anyway. also finishes better an takes paint better swell imo.

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Re: Tulipwood or unsorted

Postby Meccarroll » Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:29 am

thatsnotafestool wrote:Does anyone have a preference for one or the other ? Application are internal doors (painted), architraves, skirting.

TIA


Architraves and skirting are usually made from MDF today, stable cheap and takes paint well. You just need to use nice sharp cutters, sand back and seal cut edges. Don't use off the shelf builders stuff, use a premium brand as it will machine better.

The choice for doors it's more open I'd think.

I have several cheap (B&Q) pine doors in my house and a couple of home made ones. One twisted (B&Q) but the rest have stayed put. When you consider that virtually all interior doors were made from pine years ago it would be difficult to argue that it's not a suitable timber. If you select it with care machine properly and condition it pine can be fine.

Tulip is used a lot in kitchen door manufacturing so again it has a proven track record for certain uses. Not used Tulip myself but In the main, it seems to have a reputation for being stable.

I think the quality of any wood will mainly rely on obtaining good stock from a reputable supplier.

To some extent, good quality timber, is down to how deep your pockets are.

Mark


Might you consider saving the time and money and 'buy in' unless there is a real need for a specific design/size.

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Re: Tulipwood or unsorted

Postby thatsnotafestool » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:23 am

Many thanks guys for all the input.

Mark, your comment in italics ? Assuming it's a question and not a signature , it's for all the internal doors in our renovation - six-panelled Georgian style. Been quoted £850 or so for each...we need eleven...it's a no-brainer...make them !

Plus architraves, skirting...SWMBO rather likes this skirting board

skirting board.png
skirting board.png (13.58 KiB) Viewed 137 times
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Re: Tulipwood or unsorted

Postby rhrwilliams » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:56 am

If it were my own house I would not use MDF or tulip wood for something like a door as I think they are both too soft. I like stuff to be put in a house that you know can take a kicking from kids / me / whatever and will last.

As said previous pretty much every internal and external door on domestic houses have been made from pine from about 1750 - fairly recently. Durable material that takes a beating. Cheaper than tulip wood also and I have never had any problems with stuff twisting or warping.

Also the panels I cant see working very well in tulip wood unless you use mdf which again I don't think is great for an internal door as over time it will just get knackered as it relies on the paint.

That said..I have made probably about 1/100th of the doors the guys on here have !

You will get very close to that skirting making it in 2 bits. Top bit with 007 euro cutter and bottom bit is just square. If its 9" skirting 2 bits is better as its difficult to fix and does move about abit more.
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Re: Tulipwood or unsorted

Postby rhrwilliams » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:58 am

edit - "very close" should read "close-ish" if you squint when you look at the skirting.

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Re: Tulipwood or unsorted

Postby Meccarroll » Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:48 am

thatsnotafestool wrote:Many thanks guys for all the input.

Been quoted £850 or so for each...we need eleven...it's a no-brainer...make them !

Plus architraves, skirting...SWMBO rather likes this skirting board


Skirting:
I'd look at making the skirting out of MDF and three pieces (just step the bottom out and glue a strip on the back to fill the gap). Maybe do the moulded section in timber.

Doors
What timber was the door maker going to use? Might be influential.

I've not been keeping up with the forum lately (summer water sports) but I'd think without a Spindle moulder and tenoner (with scribe) it going to take you a very long time to make all 11 doors on your own. Good luck and don't forget to post the making of them. Having said that it would pay you to buy the equipment them sell it on after making them.

Mark

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Re: Tulipwood or unsorted

Postby thatsnotafestool » Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:27 pm

They were going to use tulipwood...which is what made me start thinking about it. But if unsorted is cheaper then I'll go that route.

I try and avoid using MDF ! :)
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Re: Tulipwood or unsorted

Postby thatsnotafestool » Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:29 pm

Meccarroll wrote:......
I've not been keeping up with the forum lately (summer water sports) but I'd think without a Spindle moulder and tenoner (with scribe) it going to take you a very long time to make all 11 doors on your own. Good luck and don't forget to post the making of them. Having said that it would pay you to buy the equipment them sell it on after making them.

Mark


Forgot to add that I've got a Hammer C3-31 coming. :D

What summer water sports do you do ? Beach volleyball spectator ? ;) :lol:
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Re: Tulipwood or unsorted

Postby Leveller2911 » Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:28 pm

Meccarroll wrote:
thatsnotafestool wrote:

When you consider that virtually all interior doors were made from pine years ago it would be difficult to argue that it's not a suitable timber. If you select it with care machine properly and condition it pine can be fine.


Years ago very, very few houses had central heating and were draughty so no double glazing to make the houses air tight. In the old days the softwood was also air dried and the better grades were used for Joinery but now we only get Grades 5ths and Unsorted in the UK so we don't get the better grades. In todays world softwoods are fast growing ,harvested early and kiln dried and they still send boards out with the pith in which is a big no no for stability.

I don't think you can compare the last 300yrs with today when you consider the advancements in central heating and double glazing.

The main reason most mass producers "engineer" their pine doors is to make them stable.

If I had to make a door out of redwood I would prime it before delivery to help seal it otherwise it would move all over the place in a centrally heated house. I never give a warranty on anything made of Redwood pine.

The advantage of Tulipwood is you don't get pockets of sap, very few knots if any and is more stable. I have noticed in the past few years when ripping it down quite often pinches the riving knife on the rip saw, years ago we never got any of that.When you ripped Tulip down it would stay very straight.

The only benefit I see from using pine apart from cost (which is not that much) is I go home smelling nicer than I did when I went to work in the morning.. According to Mrs Leveller

Just my penneth worth............. :)

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Re: Tulipwood or unsorted

Postby JonR » Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:25 pm

Have posted this before but have a look at woodex engineered pine, if i jad to go with pine i would laminate it my self, there is also Red Grandis that i have just discovered also engineered fingered jointed and face laminated.

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Re: Tulipwood or unsorted

Postby thatsnotafestool » Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:00 pm

JonR wrote:Have posted this before but have a look at woodex engineered pine, if i jad to go with pine i would laminate it my self, there is also Red Grandis that i have just discovered also engineered fingered jointed and face laminated.


Good post, Jon...not heard of that. Pricewise how does it compare ?
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Re: Tulipwood or unsorted

Postby Meccarroll » Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:05 pm

thatsnotafestool wrote:
Forgot to add that I've got a Hammer C3-31 coming. :D

What summer water sports do you do ? Beach volleyball spectator ? ;) :lol:


1. The Hammer C3-31 should help a bit but still going to take some serious time without a good scribing machine.

2. Mainly skiing, Wake-boarding, Kneeboarding but other none motorised water sports too. Currently looking for a larger Ski boat with bow area, Canadian make. Back to woodwork to fill the winter months though :D

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Re: Tulipwood or unsorted

Postby thatsnotafestool » Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:15 pm

Windsurfing for me. Providing the location is somewhere warm! I've done the December 27th windsurf with steamer and hood....long time ago.
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Re: Tulipwood or unsorted

Postby Jonathan » Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:05 am

+1 for engineered timber.
On doors I would want them painted, you would see the lamination on any non moulded edge,
With windows is almost impossible to see the lamination.
It's also a pleasure to go to a stack of engineered timber 6m lengths and every single piece is perfectly straight and no twist.

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Re: Tulipwood or unsorted

Postby Meccarroll » Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:13 pm

thatsnotafestool wrote:Windsurfing for me. Providing the location is somewhere warm! I've done the December 27th windsurf with steamer and hood....long time ago.


Yes, windsurfing is fine once you get the hang of staying upright/on the board.

Was thinking about this today and maybe a Festool Domino 700 would speed thing up a bit, you could always sell it after for not much less than you pay. Just a thought :roll:

Mark

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Re: Tulipwood or unsorted

Postby thatsnotafestool » Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:16 pm

Funny you should say that about the Domino 700 as I'd also thought about that.
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Re: Tulipwood or unsorted

Postby Meccarroll » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:51 pm

Leveller2911 wrote:
Meccarroll wrote:
thatsnotafestool wrote:



Years ago very, very few houses had central heating and were draughty so no double glazing to make the houses air tight. In the old days the softwood was also air dried and the better grades were used for Joinery but now we only get Grades 5ths and Unsorted in the UK so we don't get the better grades. In todays world softwoods are fast growing ,harvested early and kiln dried and they still send boards out with the pith in which is a big no no for stability.

I don't think you can compare the last 300yrs with today when you consider the advancements in central heating and double glazing.

The main reason most mass producers "engineer" their pine doors is to make them stable.

If I had to make a door out of redwood I would prime it before delivery to help seal it otherwise it would move all over the place in a centrally heated house. I never give a warranty on anything made of Redwood pine.

The advantage of Tulipwood is you don't get pockets of sap, very few knots if any and is more stable. I have noticed in the past few years when ripping it down quite often pinches the riving knife on the rip saw, years ago we never got any of that.When you ripped Tulip down it would stay very straight.

The only benefit I see from using pine apart from cost (which is not that much) is I go home smelling nicer than I did when I went to work in the morning.. According to Mrs Leveller

Just my penneth worth............. :)


I'm not convinced that central heating and double glazing actually lessens the stability of doors made from pine to the extent that pine becomes an unsuitable timber to use in their manufacture. I have solid pine doors and my house is heated by storage heaters (70 deg in winter), the doors being purchased from B&Q and only one of them twisted. I know the fact that even one twisted is not really good enough but they were made from real cheap pine and bargain basement doors too, so it's understandable to some extent. I'm not trying to justify pine over Tulip wood as those that use Tulip wood do seem to commend it for it's stability but there are plenty of old pine doors in old houses that have been converted to central heating and still kept their shape. I would have no problem using Tulip wood if I could obtain it around where I live at a reasonable price but I've only ever used pine Leveller and yet to be converted LOL

Mark


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