Staircase upgrade ..

General wood working tips, tricks and ideas. Anything that doesn't belong elsewhere can be discussed here.
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Re: Staircase upgrade ..

Post by thatsnotafestool »

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Re: Staircase upgrade ..

Post by Oldboy22 »

You have projected the 45deg line in the plan instead of drawing a line at at 90deg to form the corner of the rectangle.
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Re: Staircase upgrade ..

Post by Oldboy22 »

Mine looks close because the pitch is close to 45degs as in the plan but you can see it’s not straight.
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Re: Staircase upgrade ..

Post by thatsnotafestool »

Gotcha!
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Re: Staircase upgrade ..

Post by Oldboy22 »

I made a mistake on my drawing 😳 but think it’s correct now, sorry to anyone who used it .
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9C1D926B-40D4-494A-92C2-414B796EA190.jpeg
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Re: Staircase upgrade ..

Post by thatsnotafestool »

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Re: Staircase upgrade ..

Post by Oldboy22 »

Reread my explanation on the previous page it’s all explained there.
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Re: Staircase upgrade ..

Post by thatsnotafestool »

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Re: Staircase upgrade ..

Post by Oldboy22 »

I can’t make it any easier, just follow what I said and look at the drawing. And don’t forget to add shanks to both ends.
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Re: Staircase upgrade ..

Post by thatsnotafestool »

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Re: Staircase upgrade ..

Post by Oldboy22 »

I’ve already explained the rectangle are the centre lines of your semi minor and semi major axis.
The inner and outside lines of the ellipse are the two circles the handrail width from the plan and the circle you developed above , it clearly shows this in the drawing. Can I say you are back to your old ways missing things out of the drawing because you can’t see the point it’s very frustrating from this end , it doesn’t take a minute just draw it so it makes sense .
Brian
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Re: Staircase upgrade ..

Post by thatsnotafestool »

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Re: Staircase upgrade ..

Post by Oldboy22 »

You don’t need intermediate points for your ellipse, you have a ellipse tool on su use that.

The minor axis is the short side the major is the long side,

You need to pick two points one on the minor axis and one one the major axis and the centre point where they both intersect. Other than that I don’t know what you mean.
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Re: Staircase upgrade ..

Post by thatsnotafestool »

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Re: Staircase upgrade ..

Post by Oldboy22 »

thatsnotafestool wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 6:26 pm Yes, you do need intermediate points. Look again at ThisIsCarpentry above. The blue and red arrows. Those were not created on a whim but with logic behind them.

You do need intermediate points. I just drew two ellipses (blue arrows) - both with the same starting and end point. Yet the shapes are radically different.

different ellipses.png
Those intermediate points are only if you don’t have a means of drawing an ellipse like a cad program, trammel, string and pins . I have no idea what you have done but an ellipse is an ellipse. It can be changed it’s like drawing a circle with a set radius it will always be the same.

The only thing I can think of your not using the ellipse tool properly, get a refresher from your su guru.
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Re: Staircase upgrade ..

Post by Oldboy22 »

You didn’t use that method on your last wreath and you don’t need to on this , it time consuming and awkward to explain and prone to errors, and it’s developed from the radius in the plan but you haven’t drawn it , I think you said you don’t need it if your drawing in cad lol, that’s what we are developing into an ellipse :lol:
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Re: Staircase upgrade ..

Post by thatsnotafestool »

Oldboy22 wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 6:48 pm
thatsnotafestool wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 6:26 pm Yes, you do need intermediate points. Look again at ThisIsCarpentry above. The blue and red arrows. Those were not created on a whim but with logic behind them.

You do need intermediate points. I just drew two ellipses (blue arrows) - both with the same starting and end point. Yet the shapes are radically different.

different ellipses.png
Those intermediate points are only if you don’t have a means of drawing an ellipse like a cad program, trammel, string and pins . I have no idea what you have done but an ellipse is an ellipse. It can be changed it’s like drawing a circle with a set radius it will always be the same.

The only thing I can think of your not using the ellipse tool properly, get a refresher from your su guru.
I'm beginning to think that you're full of sh*t.

Those intermediate points are only if you don’t have a means of drawing an ellipse like a cad program

What the hell do you think I used to draw those two ellipses? f**king SketchUp. You can draw an ellipse with want shape you want.

Forget it. I'm out of here. You're back on Ignore. Goodbye.
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Re: Staircase upgrade ..

Post by Oldboy22 »

Your a very rude man who hasn’t got a clue and get angry with everyone as a way of diverting attention away from you and how stupid you are.

Yes it was drawn with cad but they were teaching a very basic lesson and we’re explaining how to get an ellipse for beginners, I’m glad I’m back on ignore you won’t ever learn anything you know better than everyone, I can’t believe after all the help I’ve given you, you know next to nothing.
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Re: Staircase upgrade ..

Post by telos »

Well, that went as well as could be expected...
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Re: Staircase upgrade ..

Post by thatsnotafestool »

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Re: Staircase upgrade ..

Post by Meccarroll »

Very nice post Rodger, glad you took this up it's a real headache for most and probably not possible for most so you should win your seat in the hall of fame for this project. Any chance of an overall pic of the stairs as they stand now?

Keep chipping away Rodger.
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Re: Staircase upgrade ..

Post by thatsnotafestool »

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Re: Staircase upgrade ..

Post by thatsnotafestool »

......
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Re: Staircase upgrade ..

Post by thatsnotafestool »

....
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Re: Staircase upgrade ..

Post by Oldboy22 »

I want to say so much but biting my lip, BITING MY LIP. :shock:
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Re: Staircase upgrade ..

Post by Meccarroll »

Oldboy22 wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:06 am I want to say so much but biting my lip, BITING MY LIP. :shock:

So intrigued as to why you not spilling the beans and biting your LIP?

I think you should comment if it would be useful and helpful to the thread.

Mark
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Re: Staircase upgrade ..

Post by Oldboy22 »

Meccarroll wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:06 pm
Oldboy22 wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:06 am I want to say so much but biting my lip, BITING MY LIP. :shock:

So intrigued as to why you not spilling the beans and biting your LIP?

I think you should comment if it would be useful and helpful to the thread.

Mark
Okay I will, I have no intention of upsetting anyone, but I can’t see the point of saying how wonderful the work is when to me it’s not, no one Rodger or people viewing this thread will learn anything.

The problems I can see by viewing the pictures.

The drawing is wrong to start with, it doesn’t look like an ellipse to me . (I’m only going by what I can see, could be wrong)

A proper template wasn’t made, no tangent lines are shown, no twist bevel is shown .

I think there is a shank but it was an afterthought hence the cut line on the wreath.

The chalk lines look like not enough meat was allowed for the twist at the landing.

The other end the handrail should join in the centre vertically not the top or bottom.

When you started to shape the wreath you didn’t start with the sides, you started at the underside this has been talked about before and is in all the books. Get your sides vertical and work from there.

I think the wreath was put in the vice hopefully at the correct pitch and the landing handrail position drawn on, this is not tangent handrailing this how our amazing Thai carpenter would do it.

I however like your gauge block and the machining of the volute .

I know I’m going to get it in the neck for this, but you said comment.
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Re: Staircase upgrade ..

Post by thatsnotafestool »

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Re: Staircase upgrade ..

Post by Oldboy22 »

Oldboy22 wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 1:06 pm Just use the method you used for your volute it’s the same method but just make sure you hand it the right way and put the bevel the right way it will need turning so the twist is at the top and not the bottom. Sorry if I’m not making sense.
As you couldn’t get your head around my method.

I said use this method but I think you had problems understanding what was up and what down was left and right, so you took a different course. As far as the two links to the this is carpentry I sent them to you a while back and yes THEY do know what they’re doing.

I stand by my previous comments.
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Re: Staircase upgrade ..

Post by Meccarroll »

Oldboy22 wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:46 am
Meccarroll wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:06 pm
Oldboy22 wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:06 am I want to say so much but biting my lip, BITING MY LIP. :shock:

So intrigued as to why you not spilling the beans and biting your LIP?

I think you should comment if it would be useful and helpful to the thread.

Mark
Okay I will, I have no intention of upsetting anyone, but I can’t see the point of saying how wonderful the work is when to me it’s not, no one Rodger or people viewing this thread will learn anything.

The problems I can see by viewing the pictures.

The drawing is wrong to start with, it doesn’t look like an ellipse to me . (I’m only going by what I can see, could be wrong)

A proper template wasn’t made, no tangent lines are shown, no twist bevel is shown .

I think there is a shank but it was an afterthought hence the cut line on the wreath.

The chalk lines look like not enough meat was allowed for the twist at the landing.

The other end the handrail should join in the centre vertically not the top or bottom.

When you started to shape the wreath you didn’t start with the sides, you started at the underside this has been talked about before and is in all the books. Get your sides vertical and work from there.

I think the wreath was put in the vice hopefully at the correct pitch and the landing handrail position drawn on, this is not tangent handrailing this how our amazing Thai carpenter would do it.

I however like your gauge block and the machining of the volute .

I know I’m going to get it in the neck for this, but you said comment.
Ok Oldboy, I didn't think you were going to be so critical but maybe I thought you would give some critique.

I think what Rodger has tried to achieve is at the top end of professional woodworking in terms of understanding the complexity of geometrical stair construction and making the wreathes.

I'm not sure how many professional woodworkers in the Uk have the ability to understand the complexities of the tangent handrail system or even hold any knowledge of complex stair making. It seems to me that those that try their had at the subject do at some point turn to finishing the work by eye rather then working thoroughly through the system of tangent hand-railing.

I think both you and Rodger have worked very hard on this thread, Rodgers aim is the achieve a curved handrail on his set of stairs and yours to pass on some knowledge of tangent hand-railing and to be honest despite some fall outs and sharp words at times you have both, to a greater extent, achieved what you started out to do.

It looks like Rodger is well on his way to completing his stair handrail and you have helped introduce some on here to the merits of tangent hand-railing.

I will admit I had already done some basic tangent hand-railing before but I have taken and looked looked at the subject far more in depth following your discussions with Rodger. I now have a much better understanding of the more complex areas of tangent hand-railing that had previously evaded me.

Despite a few upsets at times I think this has been a really good informative post by Rodger and your input Olboy has been very inspiring and I've got quite a lot from it so thank you to the pair of you.

Mark
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Re: Staircase upgrade ..

Post by Oldboy22 »

Thanks Mark I can live with that, I thought I was going to be hounded off the site lol.
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Re: Staircase upgrade ..

Post by thatsnotafestool »

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Re: Staircase upgrade ..

Post by thatsnotafestool »

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Re: Staircase upgrade ..

Post by Oldboy22 »

Definitely better than with the newels, let’s hope more people give it a try.
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