Flat surfaced Curved Door, what material to use?

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Meccarroll
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Flat surfaced Curved Door, what material to use?

Postby Meccarroll » Sat Apr 09, 2016 6:44 am

Hi all, I'm planning a kitchen for my daughter, she is looking at having a handleless flush look with a high gloss finish. There may be some curved work/fronts to some of the doors so I am wondering what material is best to use in this situation?

If I use MDF there will be a problem of the cutouts on the top and bottom of any doors being visible. Ply might be an option but as the finish is to be high gloss there might be a problem with the grain showing through the paint finish. I am sure someone on here has done this type of construction before so any advice would be appreciated.

Mark

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Re: Flat surfaced Curved Door, what material to use?

Postby Tomyjoiner » Sat Apr 09, 2016 11:53 pm

Not robbing your thread Mark but im in the same boat as you, ive got a slabbed door kitchen to do in may an its got a half round unit at the end of the breakfast bar an was wondering the same thing, im worried about the edges. Slight movement, cracking, mines semi gloss. Advice would be greatly appreciated aswell.
Tomy

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Re: Flat surfaced Curved Door, what material to use?

Postby Meccarroll » Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:57 am

Not a lot of help coming on this one, no one made a curved kitchen door with flat surface...........not even the kitchen guys!

Well I've had a few thoughts since posting the question and looked up a few materials that might do.

I'm considering using thin MDF 2 0r 3mm in thickness and simply layering it to the required thickness. I'll probably use cascamite glue as pva can move slightly and might highlight the layers. Or as an alternative to layered MDF, bendy ply with 2mm mdf either side and edges to obtain a smooth finish for painting.

Vacuum Pump on the way.
I've recently purchased a Robinair Vacuum pump, some connectors and pvc with adhesive for making a Vacuum bag assembly. I'll be putting the pump together over the next couple of weeks and if no-one comes up with a better idea I'll be making a test run for the door with either of the above material combinations.

Cheers Mark

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Re: Flat surfaced Curved Door, what material to use?

Postby lynx » Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:36 am

I would use 1.5mm birch plywood for the curved doors. This way they will pretty much stay to the shape of your mould. 3mm MDF will spring back for sure. You could then lipp any exposed edges with 2mm MDF and once you've added a small round, you will not see the join line. If paint finish, the birch is ok as it is. Make sure you sand the inner face sheet first, before pressing and fill any dents or defects as it's hard to sand the inner curved face after pressing.
LyNx

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Re: Flat surfaced Curved Door, what material to use?

Postby siafins » Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:00 pm

Mark, done plenty of curved kitchen doors, both ways, solid oak and painted but the flat panels/fielded have always been inside a frame. Are you after a plain, curved frameless door?

If it is, i'd go with Lynx and birch plywood and try and lip the edges somehow. Whether you could paint some pva which would be flexible over the layers and paint over.

Never seen it used but some use a tape on mdf edges to seal ready for paint, maybe that will help.

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Re: Flat surfaced Curved Door, what material to use?

Postby lynx » Wed Apr 13, 2016 6:39 am

I wouldn't worry about the edges too much, enough primer and allowing to cure properly between coats and you won't see the joint lines. I would use a resin based adhesive, this is limit the amount of layer movement also.
LyNx

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Re: Flat surfaced Curved Door, what material to use?

Postby brandon » Wed Apr 13, 2016 4:13 pm

I have made a few of these, i use a vacum press and 2mm mdf and i use cascamite for the glue, u can only do 3 layers at a time as the vacum wont pull down any more at first you get a fair bit of spring back but as you put on more layers this stops

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Re: Flat surfaced Curved Door, what material to use?

Postby Tomyjoiner » Wed Apr 13, 2016 10:15 pm

ive been looking at bag presses aswell an wondered if anyone had tried a venturi press? works in conjunction with your compressor for around £250-300? seems to have the same pressure as a vacuum pump.my local timber supplier can only get 1.5mm in 1500x1500 @ £27 + vat. an id need 6 sheets so ill be calling some more suppliers tomorrow.

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Re: Flat surfaced Curved Door, what material to use?

Postby lynx » Thu Apr 14, 2016 7:32 am

1.5mm birch is only available in 1500x1500mm sheets. You can get Gaboon ply cheaper but doesn't work as good and face/edges won't be anyway near as good as birch. Not sure on the venturi press, if spending £300 I would put a bit more in and get a vacuum press. We've made a frame press using the same pump and can press 3600x1400mm panels ;o)
LyNx

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Re: Flat surfaced Curved Door, what material to use?

Postby Meccarroll » Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:08 am

Tomyjoiner wrote:ive been looking at bag presses aswell an wondered if anyone had tried a venturi press? works in conjunction with your compressor for around £250-300? seems to have the same pressure as a vacuum pump.my local timber supplier can only get 1.5mm in 1500x1500 @ £27 + vat. an id need 6 sheets so ill be calling some more suppliers tomorrow.


£250 to £300 seems a bit pricy if you have to supply your own compressor. The vacuum press that I'm putting together has cots me £250, has it's own Vacuum pump (Robinair 6CFM from ebay) 1x 3m x1.2m bag and a 1 1m x1.5mbag (New). You could put a system together for less than £250, I'd say around £180 should do. You would have to find a decent Vacuum pump for about £80-£100 and the rest of the bits should work out at about £80-£100.

If you want to use your compressor then take a look at this link:
http://www.veneersupplies.com/products/ ... rator.html

From what I can gather this bit of kit creates the vacuum from the air that is supplied by your compressor. If you click on the link below and then click on the bottom left had box, it explains how the venturi works.
http://english.exair.com/e-vac/In-lineE ... AmDn8P8HAQ

Bagpress http://www.bagpress.com/Venturi_Presses.html do a kit for a Venturi orientated press. When you look at it all you need is ta Venturi, Bag and Bag connector and some tubing. You could probably make your own for Venturi kit for around £100. It would mean doing some internet shopping for the bits at the right price.
The link below takes you to a Venturi which looks very similar to the one used by Bagpress
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/products/ ... mps&mkwid=
This one has a faster flow rate: http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/vacuum-ej ... 428416|cav

If you are looking at building your own Venturi Press then the link below may be of interest too:
This on ebay, may do for the Venturi part, but check it out with the seller first.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Compressed-Ai ... Sw2ENW7A25

I still have a couple of bits to be delivered but I'll do a thread on my setup including where I purchased the bits (PVC, Connectors etc) from when I have all the parts arrive and I've tested it.

A BIG thank you to all that have contributed so far, it's great to have the help and suggestions coming in.

Mark

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Re: Flat surfaced Curved Door, what material to use?

Postby Tomyjoiner » Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:56 pm

Thanks for those Mark, I've read a few of them already and like you say for that money i may as well get a pump as i couldn't use my copy while i was doing this, so a pump it is. I knew their was a thread somewhere on this that Karl did ages ago viewtopic.php?f=6&t=11723
Make sure you let us know how it goes, I've ordered some 1.5mm ply to give it a go when all my kit comes. Thanks all for the advice.
Tomy.

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Re: Flat surfaced Curved Door, what material to use?

Postby Meccarroll » Sat Apr 16, 2016 8:33 am

As an update, I've received most of my kit so here is a breakdown:

First the vacuum pump, it's a used Robinair 6CFM 142Lt model. It cost ££85 from ebay including delivery. I purchased a used Robinair Vacuum pump as they are very robust and fairly quite running.
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The connector for the intake is an unusual 1/4" ACME fitting and I could not buy an ACME to 1/4 BSP so I've just pushed some braided tube over the intake and used a jubilee clip to seal it. Works just fine.
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Next is the bag connector with vacuum plug
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The above connector is actually two separate items 1. Vac connector 2. Vac PlugB, these are put together to give a connection to the bag. The Vac PlugB (the brass bit) stops the air from escaping if you uncouple the suction pipe from the bag.
Here is a link to VAC INNOVATIONS web sit where I purchased the bag connector and Plug from http://www.vacinnovation.co.uk/page/1qx ... ctors.html

This is the connector and plug connected to a bag:
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A couple more pics that help explain how it works:
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The connector is in two parts and simply screws through a hole in the bag giving an air tight seal.
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To connect to the above I purchased a Vacuum Socket (also from VAC INNOVATIONS):
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The Socket was fit to the end of some braided tubing which I connected to the vacuum pump:

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I ordered some 20thou .5mm PVC and from ALLPLAS https://www.allplas.co.uk/polythene-pvc ... metre.html to make two vacuum bags:
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Sorry about the photo I was trying to show how nice and thick it is:
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and some VYNA BOND glue from PLASTI DIP to glue the edges of the bag http://www.plastidip.co.uk/product/vyna-bond-tube-29ml

At the moment I have not received the glue for making the bag so I've used one of my dust extractor bags as a temporary measure:
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I made a test run yesterday with a toilet roll and this is the result:

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As the Vacuum Bag Connector is fitted with A Male Plug B I was able to disconnect the tubing from the bag without any loss of air, it was put under a vacuum yesterday at 1.30pm and I checked it this morning at 4am and it was still holding up.
Image

The setup cost me £250 but I ordered quite a lot of PVC £78.00 worth but this did give me enough PVC for one 3m bag and one 1.5m bag.

Cost Breakdown:

1. Robinair 6 CFM Vacuum Pump form ebay £85 inc delivery
2. 968ml Robinair Vacuum Pump Oil £14.95 inc Delivery (http://www.hvacstore.co.uk/acatalog/Rob ... p_Oil.html)
3. 9m x 1.350m x 0.5mm thick PVC £78.00 inc delivery
4. One 250mm tin Vyna Bond £21.60 inc Delivery
5. 2, Vac Connectors inc plugs £27.10
1, Vac Socket £7.45
1, Hose tail 6mm £1.30
1, Hose tail 8mm £1.50
Total for item 5 inc vat and delivery £52.02

The grand total came to £251.55

I already had some braided hose so no cost there but it's fairly cheap to buy and would not cost more than a couple of pounds if needed. I went a bit over the top with 9m of PVC but I have all the bag material I could ever need for virtually any size project.

Next will be a curved door!

Cheers and I hope this has helped someone.

Mark


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