Spreadsheets for pricing?

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Oakfield
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Spreadsheets for pricing?

Postby Oakfield » Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:01 pm

Does anyone here create spreadsheets to work out pricing automatically?
I have tried it for kitchens but I haven’t got it quite right yet although it’s still fairly useful.

I may have quite a bit of work in the future making replacement casements and sashes for a local company. It’s not something I have done a lot of in the past so I don’t have a very accurate idea of how long it should be taking me yet. I think they would appreciate it if I could give them an estimated cost based on m2 or some other more complex calculations to use. I am thinking of writing a spreadsheet for this.
Does anyone have any pointers or advise that may help me or stop me wasting a lot of time?!

Thanks

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Re: Spreadsheets for pricing?

Postby 9fingers » Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:44 pm

As much as your customers might like to be able to work out your price without asking you it means you have no wriggle room either when you need to manage demand or when your raw material costs change.
So by all means use a spread sheet for your own purposes but I'd never give access to customers if I were you.
Bob
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Re: Spreadsheets for pricing?

Postby Meccarroll » Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:08 pm

Making bespoke items means that by the nature of the work that prices will vary.

1. Mouldings: No mouldings, off the shelf mouldings or to a specific customer requirement?
2. Timber: Hardwood, softwood, etc.
3. Treated with preservative, dip treated, vac vac treated, no treatment.
4. Sliding sash with spirals, iron weights or led weights.
5. Just Primed, left for customer, powder coated. complete finished etc.
6. Delivery, no delivery, pick up etc.
7. Provision for Single or double glazed. Supplied fitted or unglazed.
8 Type of furniture, Brass, chrome, stainless steel etc.
9. trickle vents, locks, child stay, draft proofing etc.

With bespoke work there is quite a lot of variety and it's not going to be easy to cater for every eventuality on a price list. How long each job takes may well depend upon the machinery and tooling available, space to work in and experience of the construction techniques needed to make the item. Sometimes changing the hinges from storm proof to friction hinges, and changing a Casement stay for Shoot-bolt Style Espagnolette Lock Bolts can make a big difference to production times.

mark270981
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Re: Spreadsheets for pricing?

Postby mark270981 » Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:42 pm

Great question.

Most items have industry rates.

So for instance a standard bar is normally worked out on 1000 per metre the back fitting 800 a metre.

If they want a copper worktop I will add this on as an extra over and likewise with other things such as raised and field panels.

I am pretty certain you could do this for your sash windows.

Basic m/2 rate plus your extra overs - there will be an industry standard somewhere.

Pretty easy with a spreadsheet if you ask me.

I use a couple of spreadsheets for what we do and we don’t go far wrong.
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Oakfield
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Re: Spreadsheets for pricing?

Postby Oakfield » Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:43 pm

Thanks for the replies.

9fingers wrote:As much as your customers might like to be able to work out your price without asking you it means you have no wriggle room either when you need to manage demand or when your raw material costs change.
So by all means use a spread sheet for your own purposes but I'd never give access to customers if I were you.
Bob


I wasn't really thinking of giving them access to the spreadsheet, but more to help me make a quick estimate for them to base their pricing on.
I guess pricing things up is the worst part of being a one man band for me, so if I can make it quicker, easier, more consistent I would be happy!

mark270981 wrote:Great question.

Most items have industry rates.

So for instance a standard bar is normally worked out on 1000 per metre the back fitting 800 a metre.

If they want a copper worktop I will add this on as an extra over and likewise with other things such as raised and field panels.

I am pretty certain you could do this for your sash windows.

Basic m/2 rate plus your extra overs - there will be an industry standard somewhere.

Pretty easy with a spreadsheet if you ask me.

I use a couple of spreadsheets for what we do and we don’t go far wrong.


Thanks for reassuring me that I'm not being completely daft!

Meccarroll wrote:Making bespoke items means that by the nature of the work that prices will vary.

1. Mouldings: No mouldings, off the shelf mouldings or to a specific customer requirement?
2. Timber: Hardwood, softwood, etc.
3. Treated with preservative, dip treated, vac vac treated, no treatment.
4. Sliding sash with spirals, iron weights or led weights.
5. Just Primed, left for customer, powder coated. complete finished etc.
6. Delivery, no delivery, pick up etc.
7. Provision for Single or double glazed. Supplied fitted or unglazed.
8 Type of furniture, Brass, chrome, stainless steel etc.
9. trickle vents, locks, child stay, draft proofing etc.

With bespoke work there is quite a lot of variety and it's not going to be easy to cater for every eventuality on a price list. How long each job takes may well depend upon the machinery and tooling available, space to work in and experience of the construction techniques needed to make the item. Sometimes changing the hinges from storm proof to friction hinges, and changing a Casement stay for Shoot-bolt Style Espagnolette Lock Bolts can make a big difference to production times.


I do apreciate what you are saying, but also that's exactly where a spreadsheet could come in handy i.e
You input your £M2 for various timber that you use (updated only when prices change)
a tick box to select what material you will be using
select casement, top sash, bottom sash etc and have your basic labour cost set eg £80, £100, £120
enter the sizes - eg 700h x 500w - it will know you need 2.1m of 2x2 0.6m of 3x2 @ £600 M2 and work out material cost
another tick box for treatment and automatically add £10
another tick box to select unfinished, primed, painted and automatically add £0, £10, £20
horns yes/no automatically add 200mm to material cost and £15 to labour
vertical glazing bars 0,1,2 automatically add material cost and £15 to labour
horizontal glazing bars 0, 1, 2 automatically add material cost and £15 to labour
unglazed/glazed/toughened etc automatically add glass cost plus £5 to labour
etc etc
and a final box at the bottom for profit/discount, which can be adjusted to suit the customer/job

I may be making things more complex than I need too and it's irrelevant at the moment because I haven't done enough to know accurate timings (and therefore costs) that different aspects should be taking me

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Re: Spreadsheets for pricing?

Postby Meccarroll » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:47 pm

Oakfield wrote:Thanks for the replies.

9fingers wrote:As much as your customers might like to be able to work out your price without asking you it means you have no wriggle room either when you need to manage demand or when your raw material costs change.
So by all means use a spread sheet for your own purposes but I'd never give access to customers if I were you.
Bob


I wasn't really thinking of giving them access to the spreadsheet, but more to help me make a quick estimate for them to base their pricing on.
I guess pricing things up is the worst part of being a one man band for me, so if I can make it quicker, easier, more consistent I would be happy!

mark270981 wrote:Great question.

Most items have industry rates.

So for instance a standard bar is normally worked out on 1000 per metre the back fitting 800 a metre.

If they want a copper worktop I will add this on as an extra over and likewise with other things such as raised and field panels.

I am pretty certain you could do this for your sash windows.

Basic m/2 rate plus your extra overs - there will be an industry standard somewhere.

Pretty easy with a spreadsheet if you ask me.

I use a couple of spreadsheets for what we do and we don’t go far wrong.


Thanks for reassuring me that I'm not being completely daft!

Meccarroll wrote:Making bespoke items means that by the nature of the work that prices will vary.

1. Mouldings: No mouldings, off the shelf mouldings or to a specific customer requirement?
2. Timber: Hardwood, softwood, etc.
3. Treated with preservative, dip treated, vac vac treated, no treatment.
4. Sliding sash with spirals, iron weights or led weights.
5. Just Primed, left for customer, powder coated. complete finished etc.
6. Delivery, no delivery, pick up etc.
7. Provision for Single or double glazed. Supplied fitted or unglazed.
8 Type of furniture, Brass, chrome, stainless steel etc.
9. trickle vents, locks, child stay, draft proofing etc.

With bespoke work there is quite a lot of variety and it's not going to be easy to cater for every eventuality on a price list. How long each job takes may well depend upon the machinery and tooling available, space to work in and experience of the construction techniques needed to make the item. Sometimes changing the hinges from storm proof to friction hinges, and changing a Casement stay for Shoot-bolt Style Espagnolette Lock Bolts can make a big difference to production times.


I do apreciate what you are saying, but also that's exactly where a spreadsheet could come in handy i.e
You input your £M2 for various timber that you use (updated only when prices change)
a tick box to select what material you will be using
select casement, top sash, bottom sash etc and have your basic labour cost set eg £80, £100, £120
enter the sizes - eg 700h x 500w - it will know you need 2.1m of 2x2 0.6m of 3x2 @ £600 M2 and work out material cost
another tick box for treatment and automatically add £10
another tick box to select unfinished, primed, painted and automatically add £0, £10, £20
horns yes/no automatically add 200mm to material cost and £15 to labour
vertical glazing bars 0,1,2 automatically add material cost and £15 to labour
horizontal glazing bars 0, 1, 2 automatically add material cost and £15 to labour
unglazed/glazed/toughened etc automatically add glass cost plus £5 to labour
etc etc
and a final box at the bottom for profit/discount, which can be adjusted to suit the customer/job

I may be making things more complex than I need too and it's irrelevant at the moment because I haven't done enough to know accurate timings (and therefore costs) that different aspects should be taking me


Quote: Mark Numbers "There will be an industry standard somewhere" just keep asking and someone will point you to them.

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Re: Spreadsheets for pricing?

Postby Oakfield » Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:39 pm

Meccarroll wrote:Quote: Mark Numbers "There will be an industry standard somewhere" just keep asking and someone will point you to them.


Ok. Please can someone point me to them?! Thanks!

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Re: Spreadsheets for pricing?

Postby mark270981 » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:49 pm

Spons will be a good start!

I used this at uni - although I have to admit I flunked out within the first year!

An expensive book but will cover most industry standards
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Re: Spreadsheets for pricing?

Postby London_Chippy » Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:11 am

I use an app on my phone called joist. It's free and really has saved me a great deal of time in the past.

You can basically add items to your own pricing catalogue with rates attached. So basically you may have doors at such and such a price. Perko closers at such and such a price etc.

The beauty of it is that if somebody asks you for 100 doors to fit and 25 have got perkos, 25 have got overhead closers etc. You can quickly create an invoice or an estimate to suit. So you going to the doors add 100 at said price etc. It will then itemise the thing and workout the cost. You have options what you exactly want to show the client. You can show the quantity, the price per item or just the price for everything as one. You can also upload your logo so when you send the invoice over email if you wish or you can print it off and send it in the post, it will have your logo attached, their name, their address, you can also attach your terms and conditions, your signature and you can ask for a client signature either electronically or scanned and sent back to you.

Really useful great bit of kit. if this had a yearly subscription, I would pay for it no doubt.
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