Gothic arch architrave

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jfc
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Gothic arch architrave

Post by jfc » Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:35 am

I'm trying to work out the best way to do the arched parts on this architrave .

Image

Its three parts and most of it can be done with a bearing guided cove cutter in a router but the outer part is a 90mm deep section ogee .
I'll be getting the cutter made to do the straight parts on the spindle moulder but ive not done curved work on the spindle before and would rather it didnt go wrong :o
My thoughts are ....
Get someone else to do it
Price it so high you dont have to do it
Really , just get someone else to do it
Pretend you are ill
Turn the power feed so its pushing the timber to the fence . Attach a follower pin to the fence so the curve i'm feeding in to the moulder stays flat to the moulder bed .
What could go wrong :lol:

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Re: Gothic arch architrave

Post by 9fingers » Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:41 am

CNC? ie get somone else to do it!

Good luck

Bob
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Re: Gothic arch architrave

Post by Leveller2911 » Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:05 pm

Hi Jase,
When I've done them I've used a spindle moulder. A true Gothic arch is a true radius so you can make a simple template of the curve via a router. Then plane up the sections and router the curves with a flush cutter on the template so you have the curves.

Then make a "sled" to clamp to the bed of the spindle.The "sled" is basically a jig which alows you to push the curved architraves over the spindle cutter. I still can't upload pix but have a look at my flikr album and you will see a pic of me running out a curved window sill for some curved/bowed boxframes I made. Its the same process..Its expensive running out curved work and may be cheaper to contract out to a cnc company but I like doing curved work so I always give it a go. Plus the more you do the better and faster you get which is then cheaper ... :lol:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/55385455@ ... ed-public/

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Re: Gothic arch architrave

Post by thatsnotafestool » Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:59 pm

Hi Jas

I'd give it a go. It would good to see someone else also cocking up curved work :lol:
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Re: Gothic arch architrave

Post by jfc » Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:58 pm

Thanks mate . I was thinking along those lines but the reverse arch made my mind fart .
Your picture

Image

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Re: Gothic arch architrave

Post by Leveller2911 » Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:35 pm

Cheers Jase for uploading the piccy.............. Thing is with curved stuff its labour intensive and any "1 off" job like that will be expensive but if you had 10 sets to do they would be far cheaper per set.. :)

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Re: Gothic arch architrave

Post by jfc » Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:12 pm

I'll probably need to do ten to get it right !
Labour wise , thats cool . I'm just messing around in my shed like ive always done . Just bigger machines now and adding another string to my bow .

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Re: Gothic arch architrave

Post by jfc » Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:14 pm

Figured it would take a while to make the templates and machine the parts . Add to that the cost of the cutters its about £800 . CNC can do it for the same money but wheres the fun in that !
The other option is to do it with plaster . Cant be that hard but messy and not as fun as doing it in timber . Plus it would take the same amount of time .

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Re: Gothic arch architrave

Post by Meccarroll » Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:56 am

I am building a CNC Router (when the parts arrive from China?) so I can do templates for this type of work but I usually make a cradle like Leveller does for deep sections as it's a lot safer.

1. First I make the templates using a router and trammel.

NEXT

2. Mark the wood using the template and cut using a bandsaw (leave about 4-5mm extra for machining).
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Re: Gothic arch architrave

Post by Meccarroll » Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:10 pm

Next stage is to pin the template onto the wood and mould to shape using a spindle moulder and ring fence.
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Re: Gothic arch architrave

Post by Meccarroll » Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:17 pm

Next I use the cradle and do the moulding on the spindle moulder.
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Re: Gothic arch architrave

Post by thatsnotafestool » Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:19 pm

Such a neat, controlled and moreover safe way of doing it. Thx for posting, Mark
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Re: Gothic arch architrave

Post by Meccarroll » Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:24 pm

This is an example of a water drip being moulded on a curved section of cill using a cradle (Sled) and spindle moulder.
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Re: Gothic arch architrave

Post by Meccarroll » Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:31 pm

thatsnotafestool wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:19 pm
Such a neat, controlled and moreover safe way of doing it. Thx for posting, Mark
Cheers Roger, I do like doing curved work on a spindle moulder but direction of the grain changes as you pass the wood through the spindle so you have to take care to keep those fingers out of the way in case to wood snatches! The cradle (Sled) and hold downs really help to keep the process a lot safer.

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Re: Gothic arch architrave

Post by jfc » Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:10 pm

Cheers for the pictures mate . I'm gonna have to have a go at this even if its just for fun :D
Is there a reason both of you dont use a power feed to do this ?

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Re: Gothic arch architrave

Post by jfc » Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:21 pm

Thinking more about this , to do an ogee architrave im going to have to support it on a curved sled aswell as a curved base . There is going to be very little timber once the moulding is cut and as its quite deep i think it will need two passes .
Thoughts ?

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Re: Gothic arch architrave

Post by 9fingers » Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:34 pm

Can you mount the embryo architrave on a backer of ply or something to give better support surface once the profile has been cut?

Bob
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Re: Gothic arch architrave

Post by jfc » Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:55 pm

kind of what im thinking Bob . Support top and bottom against the fence with the timber/architrave fixed to a backer between them .

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Re: Gothic arch architrave

Post by Meccarroll » Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:35 pm

jfc wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:10 pm
Cheers for the pictures mate . I'm gonna have to have a go at this even if its just for fun :D
Is there a reason both of you dont use a power feed to do this ?
1. You don't need power feed
2. Power feed moves forward or in reverse. That is to say a Power feed moves the workpiece in a straight line either forward or backward. It will not follow in the line of a radius (it is not best suited to moving items around a curve). It may well fight the actual line of travel. THAT IS IF YOU USE A CRADLE or other mount that makes the work flow in a clockwise movement about a curve that is aligned to the cutter.
3. In circular work you feed the work in a circular motion, that is following the flow of the curve. Not in a straight line.

Try power feed if you want Jason but it may take longer to set it up than actually do the work by hand with hold downs etc and I suspect may not work unless your cradles are very robust and your hold downs are very well made too. In other words I'd feed by hand myself mate and keep your pinkies well protected!

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Re: Gothic arch architrave

Post by Meccarroll » Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:58 pm

Jason PLEASE NOTE!!

GIVE YOUR TEMPLATES A LEAD IN, front and back edge!

You need a lead in on your template, enough lead in in front of the timber so it holds well against the fence before the cutter starts to cut into the timber. Otherwise the cutter can snatch the wood and draw it into the cutter making you lose control.

the picture below shows a template pinned to a piece of wood being moulded. It has a good lead in either side of the wood to be moulded. It projects a few inches past the wood to allow a safe feed in.

Remember the template is the guide for the cutter and if you have not template in front of the wood the cutter will keep pulling the wood into the cutter because it has nothing holding it back (No template to stop it pulling in the timber)!!!
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Re: Gothic arch architrave

Post by jfc » Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:04 am

My thinking was if i have the power feed pushing against the fence and pointing slightly towards the machine bed then it would push the work both ways and keep the work tight to the curved bed and the fence while feeding forward . I will only be using the spindle to do the moulding on the curved blank . I think i will do the shaping using a bearing guided cutter in the router .

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Re: Gothic arch architrave

Post by Meccarroll » Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:17 am

jfc wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:04 am
My thinking was if i have the power feed pushing against the fence and pointing slightly towards the machine bed then it would push the work both ways and keep the work tight to the curved bed and the fence while feeding forward . I will only be using the spindle to do the moulding on the curved blank . I think i will do the shaping using a bearing guided cutter in the router .
The spindle moulder is the best option over a router for curved work in my experience but if you are more comfortable with a router then why not!

I always use a router for the templates and prefere one for small moulds and the like. Large section work is mainly easier and quicker on the spindle moulder.

I have not tried using power feed on curved work when using a spindle moulder with a cradle (sled). If you really want to use a power feed unit then, try a dry run without any cutter projection or the machine running just allow the power feed to move the workpiece first to see how it will hold the work.

Mark

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Re: Gothic arch architrave

Post by jfc » Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:22 am

Good idea doing a dry run . Ive got a curved template from another job i can try it on . Problem is , i dont want to move the settings on the spindle moulder until ive got the go ahead on the work . :lol:

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Re: Gothic arch architrave

Post by jfc » Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:17 pm

Looks like this job is on . Great fun !

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Re: Gothic arch architrave

Post by 9fingers » Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:44 pm

Good to hear work is still coming in though the lockdown Jase.

Bob
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Re: Gothic arch architrave

Post by Meccarroll » Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:55 pm

jfc wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:17 pm
Looks like this job is on . Great fun !
Photos please Jason, if you can.

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Re: Gothic arch architrave

Post by jfc » Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:09 am

will do , when i get a start date . Its nice to have the work coming in but no start dates :?

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Re: Gothic arch architrave

Post by jfc » Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:42 pm

Should have the window made this week and have the cutters for the architrave .

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Re: Gothic arch architrave

Post by Meccarroll » Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:06 am

jfc wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:42 pm
Should have the window made this week and have the cutters for the architrave .

You making a New Window as well as the Architraves or curved Architraves Jason? Photos and a write up or it just did not happen! LoL :D

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Re: Gothic arch architrave

Post by jfc » Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:22 am

It started out as an exact copy of the above photo but its changed as there where service pipes in the wall they removed so its a door frame with a gothic arch just above it . The architrave is just the ogee as there are also light switches in the way .

Image

The frame needs to be 103 mm thick so im doing two of the above frames and putting a 12mm frame between them so three laminations .

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Re: Gothic arch architrave

Post by Meccarroll » Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:24 am

Very interesting, much better to do than the everyday bread and butter stuff.

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Re: Gothic arch architrave

Post by jfc » Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:38 pm

Indeed !

Image

Glue up and now onto the hard part . The architraves . My bum is already twitching :o

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Re: Gothic arch architrave

Post by jfc » Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:52 am

Guess what . They have changed it again :roll:

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Re: Gothic arch architrave

Post by jfc » Fri Aug 14, 2020 12:19 pm

Doing the architrave now . I thought I had a plan but I’m ending up with snipe so need to work out a way to support the out feed .

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Re: Gothic arch architrave

Post by jfc » Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:53 pm

Think i'm going to add the curved fence and flip the power feed round to push against it .

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Re: Gothic arch architrave

Post by jfc » Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:19 pm

https://i.imgur.com/oqAsBSa.mp4
2 went ok 2 where sh*t but the plan is working .

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Re: Gothic arch architrave

Post by thatsnotafestool » Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:35 pm

Cool video, Jas. Love the dedicated use of PPE. :lol:
The advantage of a bad memory is that one enjoys several times the same good things for the first time.
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Re: Gothic arch architrave

Post by jfc » Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:14 pm

Needs a little tweak at the top but its there .
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Re: Gothic arch architrave

Post by 9fingers » Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:27 pm

Looking good Jase! its been good to watch this evolving.

Bob
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Re: Gothic arch architrave

Post by thatsnotafestool » Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:42 pm

Quality work, mate.
The advantage of a bad memory is that one enjoys several times the same good things for the first time.
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