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Achieving a perfect 45 degree chamfer.

Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:26 am
by mrgrimsdale
Been peeking over there but don't want to blow my multiple identity cover so will have a go at answering over here instead.

It seems they are struggling with yet another crap gadget which makes an easy job more difficult.
The way to do it IMHO is:
through chamfer; by eye with a jack plane (long plane for straight edge) or to marks (advisable!)
stopped chamfer; to marks, work the ends first with a chisel, then join them with a block plane. If too short for a plane then do the whole thing with chisels, a few saw cuts speeds up waste removal.
Or use a router, but a stopped chamfer still needs ends hand working.
Worst option is http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=3&p=46296&cat=1,41182 don't waste your money!

cheers
Jacob
PS crap gadget merchants not only sell you the useless "Mark 1", but then come up with the improved (but still useless) "Mark 2", then attachments etc etc. ;D ;D
PPS and to Kevin in Keswick I'd suggest not to buy any more tools he obviously has too many, but to buy a load of wood instead.

Achieving a perfect 45 degree chamfer.

Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:07 am
by wizer
What makes 'Mark 2' crap?

Achieving a perfect 45 degree chamfer.

Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:11 am
by mrgrimsdale
Generalising about gadgets which are usless to begin with and each "improvement" goes nowhere as the idea is crap from the start. Honing jigs spring to mind, though I know not everybody agrees with me!

ches
Jacob

Achieving a perfect 45 degree chamfer.

Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:23 am
by johnboy
Have to agree Jacob. If I've got a lot to do then then a router is fast and accurate otherwise a hand plane. No marking out for small ones but just run a pencil down the timber using my finger as a stop and plane to the lines for bigger ones.

Cheers John

Achieving a perfect 45 degree chamfer.

Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:24 am
by wizer
I think in this case the 'gadget' was greatly improved, at the manufacturers expense, which lead to the product being re-designed. Even the shimmed version worked exactly how it's supposed to. It's not expensive, I think I'd buy one. Better than the noise of the router.

Achieving a perfect 45 degree chamfer.

Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:00 am
by toobyefore
"Achieving a perfect 45 degree chamfer"

I'd have thought the nub of the problem was why it has to be "perfect"

Cheers, Alf

Achieving a perfect 45 degree chamfer.

Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:08 am
by jfc
I cant even peep over there as my IP is blocked ::)

Achieving a perfect 45 degree chamfer.

Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:31 am
by Andys Woodshed
Alf wrote:"Achieving a perfect 45 degree chamfer"

I'd have thought the nub of the problem was why it has to be "perfect"

Cheers, Alf
Spot on Alf


But it could be so they can be checked with those little brass mitre gauges Image

Achieving a perfect 45 degree chamfer.

Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:12 pm
by daves
jfc wrote:I cant even peep over there as my IP is blocked ::)
change it then! ::)

Achieving a perfect 45 degree chamfer.

Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:34 pm
by jay
That little gadget has its uses. I've been making some octagonal tool handles that I wanted to look reasonably smart and it did alright at keeping me from going all wonky.

jfc wrote:I cant even peep over there as my IP is blocked ::)
You have a fixed IP address? Ignore me if I'm teaching you to suck eggs, but IP addresses cost money - Internet Service Providers rely on the fact that the odds of everyone wanting to use the internet at the same time are slim and only buy so many. Unless you've specifically purchased a fixed IP address, your IP address will be asigned, effectively at random, from your ISP's pool of spares when you log on and will be given up again and lost to another customer when you log off.

The upshot of which is that it's very very unusual to be able to identify and ban someone using their IP address.

Achieving a perfect 45 degree chamfer.

Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:44 pm
by mrgrimsdale
jfc wrote:I cant even peep over there as my IP is blocked ::)
PM on it's way
I'd have thought the nub of the problem was why it has to be "perfect"
Well yes, but also the question asked by all learners and developers: is it me or the kit?
9 times out of 10 it'll be you, not the kit, and you need more practice. In fact more kit can stunt your growth in skill development, and make you dependant for life!

cheers
Jacob

Achieving a perfect 45 degree chamfer.

Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:52 pm
by paulchapman
andy wrote:
But it could be so they can be checked with those little brass mitre gauges Image
Do they have brass knobs ??? ;D

Achieving a perfect 45 degree chamfer.

Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:33 pm
by ocicat
Internet Service Providers rely on the fact that the odds of everyone wanting to use the internet at the same time are slim and only buy so many. Unless you've specifically purchased a fixed IP address, your IP address will be assigned, effectively at random, from your ISP's pool of spares when you log on
That may have been true on dial up, but despite not being guaranteed a fixed IP on broadband (unless paying business etc) you will find your IP address is constant for months.

Regarding the chamfer Router perhaps for stopped, or by hand plane or spoke they are not that hard to do??? each pass tells where to place the emphasis on the next pass, it's all about feel.
Alan

Achieving a perfect 45 degree chamfer.

Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:17 pm
by mrgrimsdale
ocicat wrote:snip
you will find your IP address is constant for months.
Or years in my case; a small local ISP. There is however a growing number of free proxy server websites which get around the problem. Seems to be a new phenomenon as far as I know
Regarding the chamfer Router perhaps for stopped, or by hand plane or spoke they are not that hard to do??? each pass tells where to place the emphasis on the next pass, it's all about feel.
Alan
Agree. And quicker and easier than a gadget ;D . Is a fundamental and recurring issue; whether or not you need better kit, or more practice.

cheers
Jacob

Achieving a perfect 45 degree chamfer.

Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:41 am
by thatsnotafestool
But surely the point of this gadget is so that we can get that 'freshly machined look' that us hand tool users all strive to achieve yet rarely succeed ;)

Achieving a perfect 45 degree chamfer.

Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:18 pm
by daves
ocicat wrote: That may have been true on dial up, but despite not being guaranteed a fixed IP on broadband (unless paying business etc) you will find your IP address is constant for months.
True, but I've found that if I disconnect my router (or my modem, when I used one) and leave it disconnected for a while, I get a new IP when I reconnect.

Dave

Achieving a perfect 45 degree chamfer.

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:31 am
by mrgrimsdale
Been over there again - they are getting their heads around freehand etc - and pencil marks! That's progress ;D well I thought so but they seem to have a problem actually making the marks. Luckily someone came up with this brilliant solution ;D ;D no comment.

What I do is run a combi square down, with a pencil held against it, if I want to be super accurate. Otherwise as johnboy said earlier - use your fingers as a stop.

cheers
Jacob

Achieving a perfect 45 degree chamfer.

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:53 am
by paulchapman
Blimey, Jacob, you're becoming just like one of those Daily Mail writers........... ::) ;D

Cheers ;)

Paul

Achieving a perfect 45 degree chamfer.

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:27 am
by toobyefore
Have I mis-read that price...? :o For a pencil gauge. Even with my natural attraction to bling on tools that's outrageously idiotic.

Cheers, Alf

Achieving a perfect 45 degree chamfer.

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:40 am
by mrgrimsdale
Yebbut you get a free pencil with it

Achieving a perfect 45 degree chamfer.

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:57 am
by paulchapman
;D ;D

Achieving a perfect 45 degree chamfer.

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:00 pm
by toobyefore
Only one; and a bloody short one at that. >:(

Achieving a perfect 45 degree chamfer.

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:26 pm
by dunbarhamlin
Yebbut, at least you'd make darn sure you always knew where one of your pencils was :D
Can't deny getting itchy and sweaty over antipodean marking tools - for a pro, I'm sure the cost couldn't be justified, but even disregarding the quality of finsh, pretty woods, brass and shellac, the functional niceties do put them in a world apart from marples and the like.
Cheers
Steve unashamed blackwood-and-brass-phile
Though no - I don't have a pencil gauge






yet :-[

Achieving a perfect 45 degree chamfer.

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:42 pm
by toobyefore
Yebbut, Steve, by the very nature of the beast it's not as though a pencil gauge needs to be anything but bog standard basic. Oh well, whatever floats your boat, as the saying goes. ;D

Cheers, Alf

Achieving a perfect 45 degree chamfer.

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:43 pm
by paulchapman
dunbarhamlin wrote: unashamed blackwood-and-brass-phile
Hi Steve,

I had a look at those Clenton gauges when I was down at West Dean and, while they are superbly made (bit of an understatement ;D) I concluded that my home-made gauge was, in terms of practical functionality, just as good - in fact it's the one I reach for every time these days

Image

And the bonus is they cost nothing as you can make them from scraps of wood lying about in the workshop - and make as many as you like. In fact it would look quite nice in African Blackwood - might buy a bit and give it a go as I need some more gauges.

Cheers ;)

Paul

Achieving a perfect 45 degree chamfer.

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:53 pm
by dunbarhamlin
Hey I'm denying nothing - but it's got to be better than a penchant for shrunken heads (or, worse still, weetabix boxes) :D

Fab stuff Paul - now you just need to check with her indoors - if she doesn't mind being called Sheila you could make a killing flogging them to hapless poms ;D

I do make bits and pieces for the bench, but somehow only a panel gauge on the gauge front so far.

Though on the subject of pencil gauges, think I came up with a decent collet design for a homebrewed one using clutch pencil leads this lunchtime - will have to get some tapping things to play around (not much of a metal worker - does it show?)
Cheers

Achieving a perfect 45 degree chamfer.

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:15 pm
by mrgrimsdale
Yebbut, thats a nail though, innit?

Achieving a perfect 45 degree chamfer.

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:19 pm
by paulchapman
mrgrimsdale wrote:Yebbut, thats a nail though, innit?
Well spotted, Jacob. Yes, it's a masonry nail - works really well when ground to a suitable shape.

Cheers ;)

Paul

Achieving a perfect 45 degree chamfer.

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:36 pm
by mrgrimsdale
dunbarhamlin wrote:it's got to be better than a penchant for shrunken heads (or, worse still, weetabix boxes)
Who told you about my weetabix boxes?

cheers
Jacob

Achieving a perfect 45 degree chamfer.

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 3:14 pm
by toobyefore
dunbarhamlin wrote:Hey I'm denying nothing - but it's got to be better than a penchant for shrunken heads
Okay, who blabbed...? >:( ;D

Cheers, Alf

Who denies everything on principle

Achieving a perfect 45 degree chamfer.

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 3:49 pm
by dunbarhamlin
Dammit try and find examples outlandish enough to make my perversions look humdrum and they ALL start poking their heads out of the woodwork.
Next will even find some weirdo who keeps thinly sliced christmas trees under the bed.

(Oops, that'd be me - I'll just go bury my head in Grimshaw for a while)

Achieving a perfect 45 degree chamfer.

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:27 pm
by paulchapman
Have you had a face lift Jacob ??? ???

Achieving a perfect 45 degree chamfer.

Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 6:29 am
by jaco
I am bone idle lazy ...................
::) ::)

So will just fit the bit to the router in the table, and a few passes later have a chamfer 1000 times better than if i tried by hand.
8-) 8-) 8-)

Achieving a perfect 45 degree chamfer.

Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 6:59 am
by jfc
In fact it would look quite nice in African Blackwood - might buy a bit and give it a go as I need some more gauges.
Need some Wenge Paul ? I still have about half a tree left 8-)

Wenge and maple with a stainless steel screw for fine adjustment , brass knobs are old hat !

Achieving a perfect 45 degree chamfer.

Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:19 am
by jaco
paulchapman wrote:
dunbarhamlin wrote: unashamed blackwood-and-brass-phile
Hi Steve,

I had a look at those Clenton gauges when I was down at West Dean and, while they are superbly made (bit of an understatement ;D) I concluded that my home-made gauge was, in terms of practical functionality, just as good - in fact it's the one I reach for every time these days

And the bonus is they cost nothing as you can make them from scraps of wood lying about in the workshop - and make as many as you like. In fact it would look quite nice in African Blackwood - might buy a bit and give it a go as I need some more gauges.

Cheers ;)

Paul
Nice piece Paul! 8-) 8-)

Presume you WILL be posting some drawings and an ABC4TT guide on building it???
::) ::)

Achieving a perfect 45 degree chamfer.

Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:33 am
by jay
jaco wrote:I am bone idle lazy ...................
::) ::)

So will just fit the bit to the router in the table, and a few passes later have a chamfer 1000 times better than if i tried by hand.
8-) 8-) 8-)
Each to their own and all that; but how is what you describe easier than going swish swish swish with a block plane? It's seriously not hard: Step 1 - look at plane, turn knob for deeper cut if needed. Step 2 - Suit up with ear defenders, eye protection and switch on dust filters and particle extraction Step 3 - hold plane in hand. Step 4 - swish, swish, swish. Also, I am interested in how you measure and quantify chamfer quality.

Achieving a perfect 45 degree chamfer.

Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:42 am
by thatsnotafestool
jay wrote:
jaco wrote:
Sat Jul 12, 2008 7:29 am
I am bone idle lazy ...................
::) ::)

......... Also, I am interested in how you measure and quantify chamfer quality.
Number of posts in a thread? ;D

Achieving a perfect 45 degree chamfer.

Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:16 am
by mrgrimsdale
paulchapman wrote:Have you had a face lift Jacob ??? ???
;D Felt like a change. Stitches out next week. You should see what they've done to the rest of my body :o :o

cheers
Jacob

Achieving a perfect 45 degree chamfer.

Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:55 am
by jfc
Awww gawd , first Pauline and now you ! :o ;D

Achieving a perfect 45 degree chamfer.

Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:09 am
by paulchapman
mrgrimsdale wrote: You should see what they've done to the rest of my body :o :o
Blimey, I hope you're not going to post a picture of the other bits :o :o ;D