gadgets for jacob

General wood working tips, tricks and ideas. Anything that doesn't belong elsewhere can be discussed here.
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engineerone
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gadgets for jacob

Post by engineerone » Sun Jul 13, 2008 2:07 pm

postman bought the following this week, shipped direct from LV centre, thanks rob. 8-)

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having not bought anything for some time, i saw the angle device in the lV newsletter, it is one of their 30year specials.

as you can see it is quite long at about 10 inches long. there is a spirit level, to ensure that when the main piece is laid out it is horizontal, then there is the moveable arm which acts just like a bevel gauge. the difference being a digital read out. so you can use it for saw setting, as well as measuring work to reset the saw. is visible, and seems as accurate as it should. it is easy to work with, as long as you do not unpack it in such a way as to
lose the enclosed battery for a day or so in your rubbish :-[ ;D

works to 0.5 degrees, and of course lets you set up either your table saw, mitere saw, or band saw. even helps with pillar drills etc. and for those who use the kreg system, allows you to set the angle properly there too.

unlike the wixey, seems to need less time to be set up, and is a similar price so to me it seems more useful and flexible than that item, since you can use it for layout as well as measuring accurately.

as for the router plane, well originally it was just to make up the cost so the postage did not seem too outrageous compared to the actual cost of the item..

nice piece of kit, with a small footprint, that fits nicely into your palm, and comes with a single blade which is quite sharp enough from the get go to make a decent groove in cherry. according to the blurb, you can use it to clean up corners as well as produce grooves etc. have still to work out all it can do, but, at the beginning it is a tool which can answer questions i have not yet considered, but can think of some tasks like cleaning up rebates, and routed hinge recessess.

so prices,.

angle finder, if they have any left, are 19.99 usd ex america,
whilst the router plane is about 42 usd.

anyway, more data later.

all the best

paul ;)

mrgrimsdale
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Post by mrgrimsdale » Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:06 pm

Plane looks nice but expensive.
Gauge looks like tat. Not as useful as a normal non-electric bevel as it doesn't slide and produce the supplementary angle. Low end 'digital' electric stuff notoriously inaccurate and obsolescent.

cheers
Jacob

wizer
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gadgets for jacob

Post by wizer » Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:27 pm

I have on of those digital angle gauges and found it very useful in finding the weird angles of the rooms in my house. Can't see much use in the workshop tho.

engineerone
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Post by engineerone » Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:07 pm

cor jacob wish i had your razor like ability to see that something in a picture is cheap tat ::)

the gauge plate is about 1/8th thick, and well attached to the
main body which is 2inches deep and 7/8 thick, both decent bits of ally in my estimation as someone who has training as an engineer.

your dislike of products from lv and ln does i think blind you to the manufacturing and design capabilities of both companies.

knowing rob a little bit, i know that lv in particular spend a decent amount of time designing and checking properly equipment they supply, and they would not want to spoil the brand name by selling cheap tat.

as for the small router, if you think 22 quid is expensive, then frankly i wish i could still by fish and chips for 4 bob too. ;D

paul ;)

mrgrimsdale
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Post by mrgrimsdale » Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:57 am

engineerone wrote: your dislike of products from lv and ln does i think blind you to the manufacturing and design capabilities of both companies.
I don't dislike them at all, I'm just doubtful of the need for the full complement of gadgets, and I think they can get in the way of skill development rather than helping.
Inventing ever more ingenious devices is what a tool maker does; it's an old tradition. But it's up to us to decide whether or not we actually need them.
IMHO the amateur or learner is too eager to take these things at face value.
knowing rob a little bit, i know that lv in particular spend a decent amount of time designing and checking properly equipment they supply, and they would not want to spoil the brand name by selling cheap tat.
Given normal use I wouldn't expect that digital bevel to last very long or stay very accurate; it'd let you down on the job sooner or later, most likely when the battery goes, and anyway it's not as useful as the trad pattern, being non-sliding.

Buy wood instead!!

cheers
Jacob
PS anybody know how they actually work, these digital devices? What's the mechanism between the tool and the read-out?

paulchapman
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gadgets for jacob

Post by paulchapman » Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:33 am

That Veritas small router plane is particularly good, in my view. I don't have one but I've had a look at it. If I remember correctly, the blade clamping arrangement is very well designed and, overall, the tool is much better designed than the Lie Nielsen equivalent which came out at about the same time.

Cheers ;)

Paul

engineerone
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Post by engineerone » Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:34 am

jacob, whilst i do actually understand your comments ::)

i also think that you kind of overstate your case too much.

skill development requires a number of things to happen.

but, first and foremost is the feeling of being comfortable with
the equipment that you buy/have. if you are intimidated by it, then you will not develop. in particular this is true with cutting and shaping tools which in a historical context in woodworking have never been properly sharpened before reaching the customer. now if you are in a workshop and learning then sharpening is about the first thing you learn.

however when starting out as an amateur you do not get that help, so you tend to look for tools being designed to simplify your transition.

so where i do disagree with you as usual is your instant dismissal of the feeling that one has to consider "gadgets" to make doing certain tasks easier, or give them the gloss of being easier.

strangely in my view, it is only by getting started that you learn, and to do that it is often better to use "sharp and well designed tools". once you have established a basis for your skills then you can develop them. if you want to.

paul ;)

mrgrimsdale
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Post by mrgrimsdale » Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:40 am

Still looks like another toy to me, that digital bevel thing.
Talking of crap tools, I've had a stanley 13 050(?) combi plane for years, but never used it successfully for anything. I used to think I needed to spend more time with it but now think it's just rubbish.
Could the combi plane be the worst of the lot, promising so much and delivering so little?

cheers
Jacob

paulchapman
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Post by paulchapman » Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:47 am

mrgrimsdale wrote:Talking of crap tools, I've had a stanley 13 050(?) combi plane for years, but never used it successfully for anything. I used to think I needed to spend more time with it but now think it's just rubbish.
Could the combi plane be the worst of the lot, promising so much and delivering so little?
If that's the Stanley #50 combination plane, you are right, it's not very good - I sold mine. You should have bought a second-hand Stanley #45 or Record #405 Multiplane - they work really well. And if you look hard enough you can pick them up quite cheaply.

Cheers ;)

Paul

toobyefore
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Post by toobyefore » Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:44 pm

Stanley 13-50? Isn't that the one with the turd-a-like handle? Users tell me it's actually pretty good. Different beast from the #50. As it happens it's handy you mentioned it, 'cos I've found a PDF (2.6MB) on it that I can include on my combi page. Yay.

Cheers, Alf

paulchapman
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gadgets for jacob

Post by paulchapman » Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:48 pm

Alf wrote: Isn't that the one with the turd-a-like handle?
Perhaps that's why he thinks it's a crap tool ??? ;D

mrgrimsdale
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Post by mrgrimsdale » Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:52 pm

13 050 yes thats it. If others rate it, it must be me then.
What I'm most likely to attempt to use it for is half round beads, but it really doesn't seem to worth the effort.
Maybe it's no good on softwood? That'd figure as there is no sole as such, except those little fence thingies, so it's easy to press too hard.
No prob with wooden moulding planes however - always a pleasure to use.

So 13 050 is a good investment folks - and I'm selling mine, you lucky people ;D ;D. Any offers before I put it on ebay? Good nick, complete with all blades and a users instructions leaflet, and in a box.

cheers
Jacob

paulchapman
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Post by paulchapman » Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:09 pm

mrgrimsdale wrote:Maybe it's no good on softwood?
Hi Jacob,

Combination and Multi-Planes work perfectly well in softwood. Here's a couple of pictures of a bead cut in a piece of softwood floorboard

Image

Image

The cutter even made a nice clean cut through the knot 8-)

That was done using my old Record #405 Multiplane

Image

Apart from it being far more versatile than that plane you have, what I like about the Record #405 and the similar Stanley #45, is that they are much heavier. In the same way that the weight of a brass back on a well-sharpened back saw helps to carry it through the cut, I find that the heavier Combination and Multiplanes work much better than the rather flimsy, lightweight ones like yours.

Of course the wooden moulding planes work very nicely as well, but you need rather a lot of them if you do a lot of moulding work.

Cheers ;)

Paul

toobyefore
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gadgets for jacob

Post by toobyefore » Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:15 pm

Innit funny; I actually used a Stanley 50 to do my beading YouTube. It's really perfectly capable of doing the job, although it's far from being my favourite combi either.


Cheers, Alf

paulchapman
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Post by paulchapman » Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:57 pm

Great videos, Alf 8-) 8-)

It's a pity that people don't persevere more with those planes and, when they have a problem, analyse where they are going wrong. Usually it's something out of alignment or the cutter not flush with or slightly ouside the skates.

When you get them working well, with a nice, sharp cutter, they really are a joy to use.

Cheers ;)

Paul

mrgrimsdale
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Post by mrgrimsdale » Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:49 pm

Yes well that's convincing. The 13 050 looks a lot different. I wonder if it has thinner skates and that makes it dive in softwood? I'll have another go.

cheers
Jacob

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