Rutlands Dakota pocket hole jig

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billybuntus
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Rutlands Dakota pocket hole jig

Postby billybuntus » Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:04 pm

Anyone bought one? I have and I'm frustrated to say the least.

Just come back from the trade show at harrogate and not having bought anything I thought I'd crack on and assemble my MR MDF wardrobe carcase.

After very carefully making six pocket holes in each corner I set about screwing it together. My first attempt saw that the assembly pulled 1/16th out as I was warned. So I clamped up the corner and set about driving in the (self tapping?) pocket screws with my dewalt driver at which point it didn't pull up correctly then sheared off.

I then drilled the screw head out and separated the corner. I decided that I should try doing it up by hand which had the exact same affect of not pulling up and shearing off :( I must saw that I've never sheared a screw head off by hand. By not pulling up I mean it gets to within 1/2 mm gap and clearly hasn't tightened up the joint.

I then decided to repeat the procedure with two new pocket holes but pre-drilling the holes with a 2.5 mm drill as the supplied drill does not go full depth.

This also had the exact same shearing affect.

I'm a little annoyed but I want to find a solution as I like the concept. I'm using 18mm decent quality MR MDF.

Could it be that the screws are poor quality and maybe of the fine variety rather than the course I need for MDF?

Also. In between all this the square driver bits supplied both round off after two uses. Not good. The actual jig seems pretty decent.

Yours hopefully
Billy

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Re: Rutlands Dakota pocket hole jig

Postby jrm » Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:34 pm

Hi Billy,

I can't comment on the jig since I have a Kreg. However, I did buy some of the Dakota screws a while ago just to see how they were. It was the first job I used the jig on and the (fine) Dakota screws went into hard maple easily without pilot holes and without shearing or stripping. However, this was several years ago. I suspect this is an example of 'quality fade'; In this case, faded to the point where the product is now useless. All I can suggest is to get your money back and try Kreg.

edit: just thought, are you sure you have adjusted the jig for sufficient depth of drilling. It's going to be nearly impossible to close the joint if the screw has a good grip in both pieces.

John

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Re: Rutlands Dakota pocket hole jig

Postby york33 » Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:44 pm

Is it just that your drilling depth is a bit out? If you drill to a depth just shy of through the edge, then the edge bulges and no amount of tightening will sort it. Give it a quick sand first or drill a bit more or less..........

Only sheared screws off when being a bit ham fisted (that sounded rude, but it may just be I've had too much beer) into Oak.

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Re: Rutlands Dakota pocket hole jig

Postby billybuntus » Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:32 pm

york33 wrote:Is it just that your drilling depth is a bit out? If you drill to a depth just shy of through the edge, then the edge bulges and no amount of tightening will sort it. Give it a quick sand first or drill a bit more or less..........

Only sheared screws off when being a bit ham fisted (that sounded rude, but it may just be I've had too much beer) into Oak.


I don't think so. For 'self tappers' the leading tip of the drill should give more than enough direction for the screws to pull through.

The material edges are perfect and there's no need to sand 8-) It was cut by a local timber merchant on a rather impressive table saw.

I was ham fisted until I was about 25. And I've slowly learned to take my time. 5 years on and I can confidently say that I'm not ham fisted but I now call others ham fisted and I don't think your comments rude as I can appreciate where you are coming from. I often use the term for others :-)

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Re: Rutlands Dakota pocket hole jig

Postby nickw » Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:58 am

York33 is right about the depth setting. The screws should not have to pull through the top piece, the drilled hole is supposed to be a clearance one. Try t.
Nick Webb, Fine Furniture, Cambridge
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Re: Rutlands Dakota pocket hole jig

Postby billybuntus » Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:52 am

york33 wrote:Is it just that your drilling depth is a bit out? If you drill to a depth just shy of through the edge, then the edge bulges and no amount of tightening will sort it. Give it a quick sand first or drill a bit more or less..........

Only sheared screws off when being a bit ham fisted (that sounded rude, but it may just be I've had too much beer) into Oak.


He certainly was right :-) Thanks chaps.

In the cold light of day I could see you were spot on. The drill bit isn't cutting the facr out correctly even if I adjust the drill stop to cut to within 1mm of the bottom of the jig. I had to cut out the face with a stanley knife and they now pull up correctly.

Not a great solution but its got me up and running for now and I'll phone rutlands on monday.

Thanks again.

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Re: Rutlands Dakota pocket hole jig

Postby promhandicam » Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:27 pm

nickw wrote:York33 is right about the depth setting. The screws should not have to pull through the top piece, the drilled hole is supposed to be a clearance one. Try t.


That might be correct for the Dakota Jig but for the Kreg jig if it is set up correctly then the end of the drill bit is about 2 - 3mm short of drilling through the material. If you set it so that it does drill through then you will need to use shorter screws than those recommended.

For 18mm sheet material I use the recommended 1 1/4" (32mm) Kreg screws and they are too long if the drill bit is set to pierce the material.

How do others use the kreg jig when it comes to joining 18mm mdf?

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Re: Rutlands Dakota pocket hole jig

Postby modernist » Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:27 pm

promhandicam wrote:
nickw wrote:York33 is right about the depth setting. The screws should not have to pull through the top piece, the drilled hole is supposed to be a clearance one. Try t.


That might be correct for the Dakota Jig but for the Kreg jig if it is set up correctly then the end of the drill bit is about 2 - 3mm short of drilling through the material. If you set it so that it does drill through then you will need to use shorter screws than those recommended.

For 18mm sheet material I use the recommended 1 1/4" (32mm) Kreg screws and they are too long if the drill bit is set to pierce the material.

How do others use the kreg jig when it comes to joining 18mm mdf?


If you set it by the guide it stops slightly short of the surface, which I thought was odd, but it works.
Cheers

Brian


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Re: Rutlands Dakota pocket hole jig

Postby Mr Ed » Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:08 pm

promhandicam wrote:
nickw wrote:York33 is right about the depth setting. The screws should not have to pull through the top piece, the drilled hole is supposed to be a clearance one. Try t.


That might be correct for the Dakota Jig but for the Kreg jig if it is set up correctly then the end of the drill bit is about 2 - 3mm short of drilling through the material. If you set it so that it does drill through then you will need to use shorter screws than those recommended.

For 18mm sheet material I use the recommended 1 1/4" (32mm) Kreg screws and they are too long if the drill bit is set to pierce the material.

How do others use the kreg jig when it comes to joining 18mm mdf?


Spot on Steve, set correctly its a mm or two short of the surface

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Re: Rutlands Dakota pocket hole jig

Postby JHWBigley » Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:01 pm

Mr Ed wrote:
promhandicam wrote:
nickw wrote:York33 is right about the depth setting. The screws should not have to pull through the top piece, the drilled hole is supposed to be a clearance one. Try t.


That might be correct for the Dakota Jig but for the Kreg jig if it is set up correctly then the end of the drill bit is about 2 - 3mm short of drilling through the material. If you set it so that it does drill through then you will need to use shorter screws than those recommended.

For 18mm sheet material I use the recommended 1 1/4" (32mm) Kreg screws and they are too long if the drill bit is set to pierce the material.

How do others use the kreg jig when it comes to joining 18mm mdf?


Spot on Steve, set correctly its a mm or two short of the surface


Same with the trend jig.
It's not about the tools, but I still keep buying more. . . .

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Re: Rutlands Dakota pocket hole jig

Postby promhandicam » Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:37 pm

Mr Ed wrote: Spot on Steve, set correctly its a mm or two short of the surface


That is how I've always used it and it works for me. I did borrow someone else's kreg jig a couple of weeks ago as I couldn't find mine and he had it set for the drill bit to go right through the edge. Inevitably I then used my usual screw and the tip went through the face :( Thankfully it was somewhere where it didn't matter but I was annoyed about it.

Despite searching high and low, I still couldn't find my jig - only a mini one - so treated myself to the set from Axminster which was on special offer. Not sure if they still have any but they were about £25 cheaper than anywhere else.

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nickw
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Re: Rutlands Dakota pocket hole jig

Postby nickw » Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:21 pm

Yes, sorry, I should have said about the less 2-3 mm, but I forgot. The point is that there shouldn't be any of the threaded part of the screw in the drilled/upper piece once the joint is assembled. That way the joint can pull up tight easily.

You're all getting as picky and ornery as Jacob. Stop it NOW.
Nick Webb, Fine Furniture, Cambridge
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
Banjamin Franklin

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Re: Rutlands Dakota pocket hole jig

Postby promhandicam » Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:16 pm

nickw wrote:You're all getting as picky and ornery as Jacob. Stop it NOW.


Sorry Dad :lol:

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Re: Rutlands Dakota pocket hole jig

Postby Mister Heavy » Sun Aug 11, 2013 4:43 pm

Late into the thread, sorry.

I have the Axminster branded jug, same as the Dakota but it came in a nice wooden box.
I've never had any trouble with it and prefer it to the Kreg. It's marked up in imperial, not metric which is _only_ an issue with 12mm stock (kreg recommend not using 12mm, just 1/2" but this is Ripoff Britain where any excuse to underdimension material is used and 1/2" plywood is made of unobtainium and par has to be thicknessed (thinnessed?) down to spec.
Wickes etc inch planed is 18mm, weighs nothing and is always twisted so I go to a mill (great Barr Sawmills, Birmingham) where their inch-nominal is typically 20mm and they'll plane it down to 3/4" at no extra cost. The point of the digression is that Kreg and Dakota expect stock to be in inch fractions, not metric and this _may_ be a problem with the thinnest wood you might drill. All other sizes are practically inconsequential.)


I set up for wood thickness, moving the jig body up to the appropriate thickness as marked on the baseplate THEN, to set the drill-collar depth, I lower the bit with a loose collar down through the guide till it bottoms out, not on the jig baseplate but on a 1p coin. I then tighten up the collar. Like this, the pilot bit cannot erupt through the end of your pocketed piece.

Clamping up before screwing is essential, and for most of my joints the Kreg RAC (right angled clamp) is a bloody miracle. A bit expensive for a mole-type grip with a probey head on it, but it makes the 90° joint 100% reliable - no bursting, twisting and I personally have never sheared a screw. I reviewed it on Amazon a couple of years back as _essential_..

It'll solve your wonky misaligned joint problems completely.

You'll like this, though....
For softwood I use Screwfix's Goldscrew 25, 30 or 35mm and it works perfectly - buy the roundhead, not countersunk 'cos it sits flat in the bottom of the pocket. Csk will tend to go in too deep and may show on your "good" face or may even split the pocket hole. The roundhead's flat bottom fixes all the objections in my experience and costs a fraction of pukka PH screws. I just bought a few boxes of 30mm on offer at under 80p per 200. Try _that_ with Kreg.

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Re: Rutlands Dakota pocket hole jig

Postby Giff » Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:58 pm

Just a point on the first post I have a Kreg jig and have used the square headed screws without problem but Axminster do compatable screws for their system with torx heads....bit more grip ?


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