What saw do i need?

Discuss hand tools here, its quieter and less dusty than the other sections.
Maverick81
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What saw do i need?

Postby Maverick81 » Sun Jul 13, 2014 9:14 pm

best hand saw/type of saw do I need to cut tenon cheeks (down end grain) cleanly/swiftly?

Thanks you.

promhandicam
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Re: What saw do i need?

Postby promhandicam » Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:18 pm

:? A Tenon saw.

woodsmith
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Re: What saw do i need?

Postby woodsmith » Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:23 am

promhandicam wrote::? A Tenon saw.


Ha, the short and sweet short answer! :D

The long version is that most saws are made for cross cutting and so they have pointed teeth for cutting through the wood fibres. These saws will cut along the grain (when tenoning for instance) but they are not very efficient and make it more difficult to follow the cut line. Tenon saws on the other hand have chisel shaped teeth and chop out the waste as they cut. This makes them not very effective for cross cutting as they produce a relatively ragged cut.

Tenon saws are a bit specialist these days and you would probably need to get one from a proper tool shop.
Keith

thatsnotafestool
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Re: What saw do i need?

Postby thatsnotafestool » Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:53 am

woodsmith wrote:....
Tenon saws are a bit specialist these days and you would probably need to get one from a proper tool shop.


Like this one, for example http://woodworkersworkshop.co.uk/
The advantage of a bad memory is that one enjoys several times the same good things for the first time.
Friedrich Nietzsche

Maverick81
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Re: What saw do i need?

Postby Maverick81 » Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:04 pm

Thank you. A long detailed answer is always what somebody wants in an answer. "A tenon saw" as an answer serves no use to anybody. Thanks for you reply.

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Andys Woodshed
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Re: What saw do i need?

Postby Andys Woodshed » Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:21 pm

The best way is to see what fits your hand
Most saw manufacturers steel is almost identical and after your first resharpen the teeth will be the same so it comes down to the handle and feel and the only way you can decide is to pick one up and see how comfortable it feels

Try to find a local suppliers ( your location is unknown) that has a range from different suppliers
It's a pity you didn't go to Peter Sefton's open day last Saturday and you could have tried some out

Peter Sefton
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Re: What saw do i need?

Postby Peter Sefton » Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:54 pm

Thanks guys for mentioning me!

To answer to question fully I would need to ask a few questions first

1 How big are the tenons both width and depth of cut

2 How many are you cutting

3 Are you on site or in the workshop

4 Are you cutting Softwood or hardwood

5 What budget do you have for the saw

6 Can you sharpen your own saw or are you looking for a disposable one

7 Do you have access to a bandsaw

8 Do you prefer a western or Japanese style of saw

I have a large range on my website but we also get other saws in for customers as our stock may not be the best for your purpose. If I can help I will.

Cheers Peter
Peter Sefton

Practice makes perfect - but a good tip from one who knows saves timber, time and tools

http://www.peterseftonfurnitureschool.com

http://www.woodworkersworkshop.co.uk

Maverick81
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Re: What saw do i need?

Postby Maverick81 » Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:05 pm

Hi Peter. Now your talking. You sound like the kind of chap who knows whats what when it comes to hand saws.

Let me give you some background. I am relatively new to woodworking. Firstly I am categorically workshop based....none of that chaotic site nonsense for me. Just finished my 2nd year joinery course at college and I am doing this seriously looking to make a living from this in time. So I have spent the past 2 years reading and watching copious amounts of online material and gaining extra curricular knowledge and understanding of joint making, tools and machinery, sharpening techniques etc etc.
I have a fair size well kitted out garden workshop I have assembled over the past 2 years and been practically living in there making various projects and honing my skills. I am capable though my techniques need working on.

So to get to my question.....While building my hand tool arsenal I picked up a £30 or so Spear and Jackson tenon saw (I think its 15tpi). I don't recall exactly what I was making a little while ago but I was doing some long/deep tenons for something. As I was cutting down the grain (pine in this instance) to cut the cheeks of the tenons I found this a slow and painstaking process using this particular saw. it seems to almost "sand" the kerf down the material rather than cut it swiftly. Previously it had seemed ok as I had only cut smaller tennons...but this was the first time I was cutting a rather beefy tenon (maybe 60mm deep in 2"x3" stock). So I was wondering if I actually had the right kind/type of saw to make cheek cuts. Yes I could have done this several other ways with my machinery/power tools but I was deliberately trying to produce this by hand.
Not long ago I bought a Veritas dovetail saw....which I love for the record. So the other night I turned back to the Axminster catalogue where I was confronted with several pages of handsaws of different shapes, sizes, tpi's, rip saws, crosscut saws, carcass saws, japaneese saws, gent saws etc and though I recognise them I don't really know the nerdy details of what does what. So any details on this you can offer would be very welcome.

To answer your questions...
1. 3 inches and 60mm deep for arguments sake.
2. just as and when I want to cut them by hand.
3. workshop
4. both - depending on the project
5. you can probably rule out Lie Nielsen but im not partial to "buying cheep" for my equipment.
6. Ive not sharpened one before nor do I currently know the process of how to do it. I have watched videos on how its done just out of interest though its not yet really been applicable to me. But would be interested to learn if its something I need to do.
7. Yes. Ihave a 12" Charnwood bandsaw.
8. Never used a Japanese saw. Though don't have enough experience of either to have a preference.

Thanks Peter.
Chris.

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What saw do i need?

Postby robo » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:42 am

You are going to need a saw with a blade depth of about 75mm, 10 to 13 TPI Rip which probably means a largish tenon saw of about 18" length and strong wrists?
Have a look at the Flinn Garlick range though I don't like the handles.
Though they can be modified as I did with this Crown:

Image

A good all rounder and pretty cheap would be this Japanese:
http://www.workshopheaven.com/tools/Sho ... Ryoba.html

I find Japanese saws easy to use and although I've got several western ones I generally end up using my Japs.

Rod

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Re: What saw do i need?

Postby Peter Sefton » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:44 pm

Hi Chris

The majority of new tenon saws are designed for smaller tenons so what you are looking for is a little bit different. I have few ideas for you if you do not wish to use your bandsaw

1 The Veritas Carcass tenon saw 12 TPI rip cut in stock with us at £64.95 we usually charge delivery of £5.95 on orders under £75.00 but I would wave this for you if you want this one. The size of tenon you are cutting is at the upper limit for this saw.
http://tinyurl.com/Veritas-12-TPI-rip-tenon

2 The Veritas large tenon saw 9 TPI rip cut in stock with our supplier available from us at £108.95 with free delivery this is possibly the best option for you.
http://tinyurl.com/Veritas-large-9-TPI-rip-tenon

3 The Pax 18" 9 TPI rip with a 5" deep blade this would be hand made in sheffield to order. Available form us £179.95 with free delivery, possibly way over your budget but an option
http://tinyurl.com/Pax-1776-18-9-TPI-rip

4 The Dorchester deep tenon saw 12" 13 TPI rip cut this is a popular saw with our students hand made in sheffield and deeper than the Pax 1776. We carry this is stock at £98.95 but the size of your tenons will be at the top end for this saw and your find it a little slow for your larger work.
http://tinyurl.com/Dorchester-12-13TPI-rip-tenon

The another option would be to use a hand saw but you need a RIP for cutting with the grain and the ones available are 4 1/2 TPI witch would be a little aggressive for tenons. A Japanese saw is an option but I don't feel it will last cutting hardwood tenons.

Let us know if we can help.

Cheers Peter
Peter Sefton

Practice makes perfect - but a good tip from one who knows saves timber, time and tools

http://www.peterseftonfurnitureschool.com

http://www.woodworkersworkshop.co.uk


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