scheppach ts4010 Motor Fault

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rhrwilliams
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scheppach ts4010 Motor Fault

Postby rhrwilliams » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:39 pm

Hi all. I have a scheppach ts4010 table saw and the motor has developed a fault. If I take the drive belts of the motor it will just about start but I have to give it a turn with my hand to get it going. It will not spin the blade with the belts on. It just makes a buzzing noise.

Once it is going you cant stop it. Which makes me think its a problem with the starting of it.

It has a large capacitor on the top of the motor. Would this effect the start on it ? Does the capacitor reduce starting current thus it may be this thats defective ? ?

Ive already wasted £45 a new switch for it and a day mucking around with it. A new motor is about £200 so would like to avoid replacing whole motor if I can.

I made a pair of small windows and ripped all the timber down by hand.....I feel sorry of for old guys having to do that on every job !>

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Re: scheppach ts4010 Motor Fault

Postby promhandicam » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:52 pm

Send 9fingers Bob a pm - he knows all there ix to know about motors and is really helpful.

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Re: scheppach ts4010 Motor Fault

Postby rhrwilliams » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:55 pm

I will, thanks for that heads up :)

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Re: scheppach ts4010 Motor Fault

Postby 9fingers » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:19 pm

Thanks for the PM.
I will reply here just in case it helps others searching in the future.

There are three faults, in order of probability, that give rise to the symptoms described.

1) Faulty capacitor
2) defective centrifugal switch - internal to the motor
3) defective starter winding.

Nearly always it is a faulty capacitor. Usually there is no need to buy the makers official spares which invariably are silly money as perfectly acceptable one are available from ebay and other vendors.
If you need help choosing one, post a nice sharp focus picture of the lettering on the old one and I'll point you at a suitable replacement.
Not only is this the most probably solution it is also the easiest/cheapest to fix.

2) can be a PITA as the switches are bespoke to the motor maker but usually there is a way for sorting them out.

3) defective starter winding means a motor rewind or a new motor and below about 5hp, a rewind is dearer than a new motor and should only be contemplated if the there is something mechanically special about the motor such as double ended or extra long spindles etc etc.

HTH

Bob
Information on induction motors and inverters here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_GZrX ... sp=sharing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: scheppach ts4010 Motor Fault

Postby rhrwilliams » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:30 pm

Bob thanks very much for the input. Ill take the capacitor tomorrow and find the details.

Thanks again

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Re: scheppach ts4010 Motor Fault

Postby rhrwilliams » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:13 pm

Hi Bob,

Here is the capacitor (See Pic). This one looks like it will be the same one;
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Polypropylene- ... B00BG6L9E8

I also read your book / ebook on motors. Very interesting and I'm very glad you wrote it. I will be on the look out for 3 phase machines with dual voltage motors......I have seen a lovely old Sagar machine which has this plate on it (See Picture). Am I right in thinking as its 220 / 380 , 5hp motor, I could wire it to Delta , then run this off a one phase in 3 phase out 4kw inverter ? They are much cheaper than static / rotary ones.

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Re: scheppach ts4010 Motor Fault

Postby rhrwilliams » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:14 pm

s-l1600.jpg
FullSizeRender.jpg

9fingers
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Re: scheppach ts4010 Motor Fault

Postby 9fingers » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:44 pm

That Amazon capacitor looks a fine substitute but watch out for the delivery clause - "arrive after Christmas"

Ebay vendors seem more on the ball http://tinyurl.com/yd7paghf

I'm glad you found my motor paper useful.
In principle your Sagar motor should run fine in delta from a 240v in 240v out

Ones rated at 4kW single phase in are less common but they are out there. It will need to be connected to a dedicated 240 circuit with a suitable isolator and MCB as it needs more power that you can safely take from a 13 amp socket.
Again scouring ebay might get you a suitable used inverter or there is a good selection of new ones available from the inverter supermarket (google). A very helpful company for both inverters and motors and I've used them a number of times - no commercial connection etc etc

If the machine is a planer, then it can take a whole heap of torque to get a heavy cutter block up to speed. Possibly best to set the ramp up to 5 sec or so and the ramp down perhaps even longer as the inverter has to absorb the stored energy in the cutter block as it brakes it.

Let me know if you need any further assistance.

Bob
Information on induction motors and inverters here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_GZrX ... sp=sharing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: scheppach ts4010 Motor Fault

Postby rhrwilliams » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:14 pm

Bob , thanks very much I've ordered the capacitor and will fit next week. Ill let you know if it sorts it. I am sure it will .

The machine is a saw. Inverters ive looked at it seems its about £350 for a inverter. I think I better not buy the saw though and an inverter otherwise the other half won't be getting any xmas presents :) Ill have a mull over it

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Re: scheppach ts4010 Motor Fault

Postby 9fingers » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:26 pm

You can get cheaper inverters eg hhttps://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5HP-4KW-VFD ... 2854666790 but I do wonder what the quality is like although they have a 2y warranty.

I tend to buy second hand, known brand ones for my projects.

Bob
Information on induction motors and inverters here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_GZrX ... sp=sharing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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rhrwilliams
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Re: scheppach ts4010 Motor Fault

Postby rhrwilliams » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:33 pm

Well thats lots cheaper...The saw is getting more tempting....

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Re: scheppach ts4010 Motor Fault

Postby 9fingers » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:12 pm

I doubt that a used one would be any cheaper.

Bob
Information on induction motors and inverters here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_GZrX ... sp=sharing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Image

rhrwilliams
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Re: scheppach ts4010 Motor Fault

Postby rhrwilliams » Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:31 pm

The capacitor did not work , it does the same thing and won't start with tension on the pulley.

I think I have just worked the motor too hard and its given up :(

Looks like a new motor needed.

thanks

Richard

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Re: scheppach ts4010 Motor Fault

Postby rhrwilliams » Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:31 pm

Thanks for the help though Bob, I've been keeping my eyes peeled for 220 / 440 machines !

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Re: scheppach ts4010 Motor Fault

Postby 9fingers » Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:39 pm

OK It maybe a more complex problem with the starting circuit. Very difficult to diagnose by email lol

Bob
Information on induction motors and inverters here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_GZrX ... sp=sharing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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rhrwilliams
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Re: scheppach ts4010 Motor Fault

Postby rhrwilliams » Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:43 pm

Dont worry bob capacitor was only £8 and definitely worth a try.


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