AWEBDS610 Belt/disc sander drive belt.

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rogerj
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AWEBDS610 Belt/disc sander drive belt.

Post by rogerj » Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:24 pm

Hi..I'm a newbie here - and I've arrived with a problem.
My Axminster's AWEBDS610 toothed drive belt failed after 17 years of occasional use. I have been in spasmodic email communication with Axminster support for nearly 3 months and have finally been told they can't help. It was spasmodic because some replies were unhlepful..some wern't answered - I was asked to measure the pulley details as they didn't have any records and finally - at twice the price of similays belts - they sent the wrong one. As this machine was in production for many years and may be identical to other machines with different badges I wonder if anyone here has solved this problem..
drivebeltsolutions.co.uk is the only place I can finda listing, but it's ominously showing "out of stock"
Similar machines may be RecordBDS250 or Clarke Cs4-6c (later only 4" sanding belt). Any others that may work ?
Roger

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Re: AWEBDS610 Belt/disc sander drive belt.

Post by jfc » Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:26 pm

Try Beltability . 0175352202

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Re: AWEBDS610 Belt/disc sander drive belt.

Post by 9fingers » Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:38 am

Is this a flat belt with teeth normally called a timing belt from its application on a car engine or a vee belt with relief cuts to make it flex more on small diameter pulleys known as cogged belts?
Is there any marking on the old belt that might give a clue. Axminster ought to be able to tell you what it is even if they can’t supply it.
Bob
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Re: AWEBDS610 Belt/disc sander drive belt.

Post by 9fingers » Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:52 am

Ok I’ve found a photo of the belt and it is a timing belt

Please count the number of teeth on the belt and measure the width. Estimate the tooth pitch by measuring between several teeth and dividing by the number of teeth you measure over. Best still provide the numbers/letters on the belt and I will look it up for you and suggest a supplier.
Bob
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Re: AWEBDS610 Belt/disc sander drive belt.

Post by rogerj » Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:47 pm

Thanks for the helpful replies and apologies for the slow response..I'll try and answer all in this post.
@jfc: I'll try Beltability on Monday.
MY original belt lasted right up to last September when suddenly there was no drive. I removed the cover and there was nothing left of the belt except a ball of string..Yep..it worked until the very last on the cords alone and the rubber had disappeared, presumably slowly, as dust. So I had no pattern to refer to.
I emailed Axminster and asked to order a new one..It sonn became clear that they had no information whatsoever on the required belt and asked me to measure the diameter of both pulleys and the distance between centres. I now know it is generally referred to in the drive belt world as a "timing belt" or synchronous drive belt sometimes or Rubber Chain by Dunlop) . I wasn't asked about the pitch of the teeth and clearly they didn't know that either because they sent one with the wrong pitch (5mm)
I found online a belt length calculator (https://bepltd.com/pages/how-to-calculate-belt-length) and the length required came to 573.5mm..From my measurement Axminster must have come to the same figure as the Dunlop belt they sent was 575mm..near'nuff and a standard length on the Dunlop web site.
The belt they supplied was 15mm wide but the pulleys would accept up to 25mm..20mm would seem ideal.
I measure the pitch as 8mm.
So...the numbers on the wrong belt were 575-5M-15...If this is an industry wide way of describing them the required belt would seem to be 575-8M-20 (20 is a guesstimate) but that does not appear as an available size in the Dunlop product list...in particular the 575mm length is missing in the 8M pitch list.There is very little adjustment for length available on the machine.
DrivebeltSolutions have it listed as out of stock (https://drivebeltsolutions.co.uk/axmins ... drive-belt) Previously I thought there was no way of enquiring there without knowing the number of teeth...But maybe I've just found one..Another possibility !
Anyway..I am mighty dissatisfied with the help and suport from Axminster, who took forever to get around to telling me they can't help.

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Re: AWEBDS610 Belt/disc sander drive belt.

Post by rogerj » Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:12 pm

sorry guys..I typed a long reply and its disppeared into cybe space..I thought it said awaiting moderation but I could be mistaken..I'll have another go shortly..R

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Re: AWEBDS610 Belt/disc sander drive belt.

Post by 9fingers » Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:54 pm

Don't worry Roger, your reply made it to the forum.

There is a problem with your theoretical belt as the length need to be an integral number of teeth so you possibly need an 576-8m-20 or even 576-8m-25

Popular sizes are 560 -8m-20 or 600-8m-20. you need to see how much adjustment there is in the motor mounts to see which belt would be most suitable of if you need to stick to 576-8m-20/25

I often use Bolton Engineering for these sorts of supplies but the are plenty of others. Ebay is not bad start and not much difference in quality.

HTH
Bob
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Re: AWEBDS610 Belt/disc sander drive belt.

Post by 9fingers » Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:58 pm

How about here https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HTD-Curved-T ... ng00b3udog

Or spot on 576 -8m-25 here
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HTD8M-228-81 ... DvdNBD2FQg

But you will have to wait for it to turn up from China?

Bob
Information on induction motors and inverters here
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Re: AWEBDS610 Belt/disc sander drive belt.

Post by rogerj » Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:21 am

Thanks Bob..I've gone the eBay route and ordered from China..Just £4 inc. postage. I buy all sorts from China so am used to the wait.
I'm a bit surprised that no one popped up who has had this before....there must be plenty more of these machines out there.
When it comes, and I know it fits, I'll order another and come back here to report what and where I got. Thanks again.Roger

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Re: AWEBDS610 Belt/disc sander drive belt.

Post by rogerj » Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:58 pm

2 weeks on and the Chinese belt has arrived HTD8M-576 ...and it doesn't fit :-( It's like it's too chunky or heavy duty.Won't sit dowm in the pulley teeth so "climbs out" and hence appears too short...I've now messaged belt solutions who actually do advertise one..but shows out of stock..
So....the saga continues..Roger

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Re: AWEBDS610 Belt/disc sander drive belt.

Post by 9fingers » Sun Jan 26, 2020 1:07 pm

wrap the belt 3/4 around one of the pulleys and see if it nestles down nicely or not.
There is an alternate timing belt profile where the teeth are more trapezoidal rather than a series of semicircles that HTD uses.
Not sure what that profile is called - I'll have a google.

Bob
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Re: AWEBDS610 Belt/disc sander drive belt.

Post by 9fingers » Sun Jan 26, 2020 1:16 pm

A comparison here https://www.bbman.com/blog/2013/08/choo ... h-profile/
It does not seem likely that it is the top paragraph as there is no 8mm or 5/16" pitch referred to
The middle paragraph refers to the one you have, HTD
Just possible that you have profile referred to in the last paragraph.

Presumably you have adjusted the belt tension. Timing belts are run quite tight.
Bob
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https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_GZrX ... sp=sharing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: AWEBDS610 Belt/disc sander drive belt.

Post by rogerj » Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:34 pm

Hi Bob.."Drive belt solutions" got them from a supplier who no longer stocks them..And they don't know the spec of the belt. No luck there then :-(
I've got a pulley off the machine now and can see exactly why the HTD belt won't fit..The pulley teeth are 0.21mm(edit that should be 2.1mm) deep and the belt teeth are 3.6mm.. The pitch seems correct and is cetainly not any imperial dimension I can find listed. So the belt sits high on the wheel and as it thinks its on a larger diameter, after about 6 teeth two crests are on top of each other..
It does seem possible it's one of the trapezoidal pattern belts you linked to on the US site so I will hit the phone a UK belt firm tomorrow . Will be back !
Roger
edit: as well as being deeper the belt teeth are too wide at the point where they should enter the Pulley space...R

Edit2: late update, "Drive belt solutions" have just emailed me asking for photo of the pulley with the HTD belt laid on...Perhaps help is at hand..

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Re: AWEBDS610 Belt/disc sander drive belt.

Post by rogerj » Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:04 am

I'm keeping this thread going because it comes up now on Google searches for the AWEBDS610 Belt&disc sander. hopefully it will end up with a solution for others ! DBSolutions are on the case and I await a reply. studying the pdf on the Axminster download site I now believe the belt has 73 teeth which makes a 584mm belt length. With that info I have now also phoned Beltability as suggested by jfc in #2 (thankyou) and await a call back from thjeir engineer. .......

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Re: AWEBDS610 Belt/disc sander drive belt.

Post by 9fingers » Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:51 am

Belt length is quite a complicated issue. The stated length is of the neutral axis of the belt which is part way through the thickness where the internal cords are as those do not stretch. As the belt goes round the pulleys, the inside of the belt compresses and the outside stretches accordingly.
So with out specialist kit, belt length can only really be measured by cutting it and laying flat which is usually impractical.
For a toothed belt, counting teeth and multiplying by the pitch as Roger has done is the way to go.
For other belts, the length of the neutral axis is not easy to measure. Similarly the diameter of the pulleys for say a Vee belt, for calculating speed ratios, has to be measured part way up the vee where the neutral axis of the belt touches it.
Of course as the vee belt wears in use, it slides down the vee and the speed ratio changes accordingly.
Life does get complicated at times!

Bob
Information on induction motors and inverters here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_GZrX ... sp=sharing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: AWEBDS610 Belt/disc sander drive belt.

Post by rogerj » Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:01 pm

I think I've reached the end of the line with no success..The attached picture is taken from the Axminster user manual pdf (which is useless as far as any info on this belt is concerned) I printed it large and painstakingly counted the teeth as best I could. That's how I got 73. I measured the 8mm pitch.
You'll never speak to a more helpful guy than Tony at Belability. With the info I now have he researched it, phoning 2 major belt specialist and came back to say no such belt exists and that it may have been an OEM for/by the machine manufacturers who choose for marketing reasons not to make it aavilable as a spare part.
Michael from beltSolutions tried to help and came with the comment that the tooth profile looks like an imperial style and may be 5/16" pitch (7.935mm) not avaiable in the UK - but maybe in the USA. However Google can't find a reference to 5/16" pitch belts anywhere so I'm not pursuing that.
I discussed various alternative solutions with Tony and when I suggested getting the teeth turned off the pulleys for a flat belt he says no problem. Just measure the distance around and Beltability can easily make one to any length. I may have to add a tensioner pulley but they look cheap enough or maybe a car scrapyard. I have a cousin skilled in lathework so will be contactiing him.
So thank you Axminster for selling a product with a vital part that can't be replaced.
Thanks to everyone who tried to help and If anyone ever reads this thread, who has found a source..please advise us..Roger
Attachments
timing belt2.jpg

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Re: AWEBDS610 Belt/disc sander drive belt.

Post by rogerj » Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:18 pm

I'm back with some progress ! I turned the teeth off the pulleys myself ( I have a Myford 7) but left a thou or so of the teeth for a grippy surface.
I received a quote from Beltability for the plain belt but they asked £20 +VAT for postage ! total bill £45...I think I'll pass on that.
I had the 575mm belt with 5 mm pitch teeth that Axminster sent a few weeks ago and had an :idea: that I couold turn it inside out and try that. In fact I put it on teeth inwards and pressed go..Perfect !!
I had put off buying a new sanding belt until this was resolved but will get one tomorrow and try it under load. Even if it doesn't last as 17 years like the last one I'll be happy...Roger
BTW ..if anyone tries this be aware the 10mm bolts holding on the pulleys have Left Hand Threads

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Re: AWEBDS610 Belt/disc sander drive belt.

Post by 9fingers » Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:42 pm

Sounds like a result.
Persistence pays off!

Bob
Information on induction motors and inverters here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_GZrX ... sp=sharing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: AWEBDS610 Belt/disc sander drive belt.

Post by rogerj » Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:49 pm

Now with new sanding belt it works well enough for me. What's more, if they don't last as long as the original, look on eBay for : "Electric Scooter Timing Belt HTD575-5M-15" and get three for well under a tenner. Result !
disclaimer: Use this solution at you own risk :lol:

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