Router Table or Spindle Moulder

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shed9
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Router Table or Spindle Moulder

Postby shed9 » Sat May 25, 2013 10:07 pm

I'm looking at router tables, but am considering buying one of the low spec spindle moulders that come with router bit adpators and fitting a speed controller with a 1-1 belt (and possibly uprated motor.

A router lift is about £220 upwards and a cast table about the same with a decent router north of £200 and stand over £100. However, I can get a Charnwood moulder for around £600.

I'd have a ready made table stand with cast iron table, sliding coping sled, spindle lift, controlled motor and substaintial weight to boot.

I have an Incra LS positioner on order and would ditch the guard / fence (probably sell on Ebay to recover some cost). I would only use it for router bits as I already have a spindle moulder (without possibility of router adapter).

Any pitfalls? Am I missing something obvious or is this the way to go.

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Re: Router Table or Spindle Moulder

Postby hammertime » Sat May 25, 2013 10:20 pm

Tbh the only time I use the spindle is for stuff that might make the router grunt a little bit.- the router gets rarely used unless it's for small mouldings or housings.
Sounds a little gibberish but the spindle does most of the work and the router gets the off look in when it's easier to bring the tool to the job instead of vice versa

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Re: Router Table or Spindle Moulder

Postby jfc » Sun May 26, 2013 6:49 am

My router table is handy for storing finished timber :lol:
both machines have thier place in my workshop and i dont think one can do the job of the other .

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Re: Router Table or Spindle Moulder

Postby mattty » Sun May 26, 2013 7:06 am

Shed where abouts in the UK are you?
I've got one of the little Charnwood spindle moulders and i've never even used it, so i'd be happy to sell it.
Cheers, Matt.

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Re: Router Table or Spindle Moulder

Postby thatsnotafestool » Sun May 26, 2013 7:16 am

Really depends on what you are making. I find that more joinery oriented work then the spindle gets a look in....more furniture related then the router table(s)...but even then I will use the spindle for some larger mouldings in the case of the latter....and the router table for making glazing beads for the former.

You don't need a router lift if you go for a router like the Triton as it is effectively built-into it. But even if you go for a different router, you can use something like a car scissor jack under the router in a table...crude but reliable, accurate and effective.
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Re: Router Table or Spindle Moulder

Postby stevep » Sun May 26, 2013 8:07 am

As you've already got a spindle get a router table. That Charnwood thing will never run a router cutter at a high enough speed (I know as I have one, but I only paid about £350 for mine, it's not worth £600).
I always use the router table for mdf doors, beads etc, as there is a bit more control, and it's more difficult to set up decent guarding on the spindle for very small stuff. Plenty of bits available to build your own.

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Re: Router Table or Spindle Moulder

Postby shed9 » Sun May 26, 2013 8:50 am

Thanks for the advice everyone, I'm leaning towards the router table at the moment. Rutlands have a good deal on this weekend.

I also thought about adding a wing to my table saw, but I've tried the tool with many uses approach before and it simply doesn't work.

I know a moulder will not have the speed for a 1/2" cutter, but I would either replace the motor or fiddle with an VFD.

I've never seen a charnwood / fox spindle moulder in the flesh, I'm surprised you think its not worth the money stevep.

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Re: Router Table or Spindle Moulder

Postby stevep » Sun May 26, 2013 3:02 pm

shed9 wrote:I've never seen a charnwood / fox spindle moulder in the flesh, I'm surprised you think its not worth the money stevep.


It's ok for a small cheap one, but there are several things it can't do - the small table opening limits the block size to 140mm, limited rise and fall, and the arbor doesn't tilt. The fence/guard arrangement is a bit flakey as well - horrible diy bodge style clamps - and so it takes an age to set it up accurately. On the plus side it's got a sliding table which is quite useful.
As I said I only paid £350 for mine, when it was on special offer. If I had £600 to spend I'd look for a s/h Sedgwick, Wadkin or similar.

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Re: Router Table or Spindle Moulder

Postby shed9 » Sun May 26, 2013 3:40 pm

A s/h sedgwick/wadkin would actually fit the bill as they are mostly 3 phase and a VFD would fit right in there, the problem is that they are unlikely to have the 1/2 router bit option.

To be clear I only want to run this thing as a router table with a router fence and 1/2" bits (at proper router speeds). I already have a spindle moulder, an Axminster WS1000TA and that is for blocks only. Its a decent machine (tilt an' all), but I want something for smaller router bits.

to be honest, a charnwood / fox thing would be fine, I'd strip the fence and 30mm spindle and just run it as a 1/2" holder - seems a bit of a win-win situation (if I can get the speed up) as you get cast iron table, lift, weight, slide and table stand in one go.

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Re: Router Table or Spindle Moulder

Postby stevep » Sun May 26, 2013 7:52 pm

I think you'll end up with an expensive router table with a crap fence :lol:

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Re: Router Table or Spindle Moulder

Postby shed9 » Sun May 26, 2013 8:08 pm

stevep wrote:I think you'll end up with an expensive router table with a crap fence :lol:


???

I've got an Incra fence to go on it, not sure I get the comment?

Don't get me wrong, no humour transplant going on, am I missing something?

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Re: Router Table or Spindle Moulder

Postby jfc » Mon May 27, 2013 6:49 am

To be clear I only want to run this thing as a router table with a router fence and 1/2" bits (at proper router speeds). I already have a spindle moulder,


I'd get a router table then :D

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Re: Router Table or Spindle Moulder

Postby shed9 » Mon May 27, 2013 7:48 am

jfc wrote:
To be clear I only want to run this thing as a router table with a router fence and 1/2" bits (at proper router speeds). I already have a spindle moulder,


I'd get a router table then :D


Which brings it full circle;

Router table + lift + router + fence, etc

vs

Spindle moulder with different fence and speed control


They work out similar costs (ish), whereas the a moulder seems to be more robust and solid. I wanted to see if anyone is doing the same.

It would appear not :!:

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Re: Router Table or Spindle Moulder

Postby thatsnotafestool » Mon May 27, 2013 8:28 am

But does the spindle moulder rotate at router cutter speeds?
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shed9
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Re: Router Table or Spindle Moulder

Postby shed9 » Mon May 27, 2013 9:07 am

thatsnotafestool wrote:But does the spindle moulder rotate at router cutter speeds?


Since I don't know what moulder yet, I can't confirm that, but whatever I use I will probably run the belts on 1:1 and the motor on a controller.

So, yeah, but no, but yeah ;)

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Re: Router Table or Spindle Moulder

Postby thatsnotafestool » Mon May 27, 2013 9:27 am

You might be interested in this thread

http://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/rout ... 18980.html

and this one

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4744

I'm guessing it's also going to depend on what router cutters you use.
The advantage of a bad memory is that one enjoys several times the same good things for the first time.
Friedrich Nietzsche

shed9
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Re: Router Table or Spindle Moulder

Postby shed9 » Mon May 27, 2013 1:12 pm

thatsnotafestool wrote:You might be interested in this thread

http://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/rout ... 18980.html

and this one

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4744

I'm guessing it's also going to depend on what router cutters you use.


Thanks for that, most useful.

I would want to utilise small cutters so its a given that the speed will need to be over 10k at least. This may be a stumbling block as I'm not sure I want to mess around with the mechanics of a cheap machine and make it do more than its designed to, i.e. make a cheap moulder spinf 2-3 times faster than it probably should?

thatsnotafestool
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Re: Router Table or Spindle Moulder

Postby thatsnotafestool » Mon May 27, 2013 2:00 pm

A nagging doubt crept into shed's thoughts that perhaps he'd overdone the spindle-moulder speed override control

Image

:D
The advantage of a bad memory is that one enjoys several times the same good things for the first time.
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Re: Router Table or Spindle Moulder

Postby stevep » Mon May 27, 2013 2:31 pm

shed9 wrote:
stevep wrote:I think you'll end up with an expensive router table with a crap fence :lol:


???

I've got an Incra fence to go on it, not sure I get the comment?

Don't get me wrong, no humour transplant going on, am I missing something?

I assumed you would be using the fence that came with the spindle.
thatsnotafestool wrote:A nagging doubt crept into shed's thoughts that perhaps he'd overdone the spindle-moulder speed override control

Image

:D

That's just not nice. But funny though :lol:

Honestly though, I really do think you're on a hiding to nothing trying to use the Fox spindle to make yourself a router table. I really doubt that the arbor and it's bearings could run at 10k (compared with the 3500 that it normally runs at).

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Re: Router Table or Spindle Moulder

Postby shed9 » Mon May 27, 2013 5:25 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol:

router table it is :oops:

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scosarg
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Re: Router Table or Spindle Moulder

Postby scosarg » Tue May 28, 2013 2:32 pm

Router bits in spindle moulders never really work that well - you can not get high enough rpm to get adequate peripheral speed to give a really high quality finish.

cheers

Paul
Scott & Sargeant Woodworking Machinery Ltd
Blatchford Road
Horsham RH13 5QR
Tel +44 (0) 1403 273000
Website http://www.scosarg.com


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