Festool and the working man

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hercule
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Festool and the working man

Postby hercule » Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:32 pm

What makes festool so special ? As those that know me know I'm a carpenter
Recently tried the little festool cxs cordless drill. Amazing bit of kit. So light and plenty of guts. This lead me to my dewalt plunge saw. Was never satisfied with the pita blade change mechanism or the fact that the tracks when joined together had an amazing amount of out of squareness (is that a proper word)
So I sold that on the bay and picked up a ts55.
Next up the jigsaw. It's the one go to tool that always pisses me off. My makita is crap. I've owned Bosch Dewalt etc etc etc. tried the carvex Wow it made a horrendous tool into a pleasure to use. I do believe the festool range is 2nd to none. I've tried them all over the years. And even when you compare costs with other makes of power tool. They don't seem to bad all
My tools get worked hard. And I'm back on the festool wagon.
What's everyone's opinion?
Bearing in mind my veritas planes look like they have dragged up from the bed of the North Sea !

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Re: Festool and the working man

Postby Leveller2911 » Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:23 pm

I have a domino and its a good piece of kit. The quality of the tool is excellant. Would I have bought a similar tool from the likes of Makita,Fein etc?, yes I would but they don't make a domino or simiar. My requirements when buying tools are : 1/ accurate 2/ build quality 3/Durability 4/ Price. All are important factors for me when buying kit.

I have a Makita LS1013 chop saw which is over 15 yrs old and still cuts acurate mitres etc.I have used a Kapex and its a nice tool great for accurate work but the capacity for general use is dire and its no more accurate than any other trade brand.All said and done it just cuts timber no more accurately than a chop saw costing half the price.

Just my opinion but its the same with the Festool Jigsaw,RO sanders,routers, skil saws,dust extractors etc. They will cut as accurately as any other trade brand and no better.

A Skoda Octavia as a taxi is reliable,decent quality,good maintenance costs,excellant MPG, not bad resale values and cheap to buy. You don't see any Audi A8 taxis for the simple reason that you can buy an Octavia for 25% of the cost of Audi and it will do the job just as well, last just as long and won't cost a premium to buy.

I won't be buying any other Festool tools anytime soon.

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Re: Festool and the working man

Postby woodsmith » Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:30 pm

I don't know what is different about the Carvex but it works so much better than the Bosch and Dewalt jigsaws I have. I've never tried Festool drills as they seem expensive but the track saw is brilliant and got me started on Festool in the first place. I am currently resisting buying a Kapex :D
Keith

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Re: Festool and the working man

Postby hercule » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:29 pm

See that's what gets me. Anti festool. A top of the range Bosch jigsaw is circa £150. A carvex is £200. Agree it's £50 more. But the cost is negligible. A top of the range dewalt chopsaw is over £600. sh*t dust extraction takes up loads of room and is never 100% accurate. I agree with the taxi thing. Much the same as an Austin allegro will get you from a to b.
each to there own I suppose

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Re: Festool and the working man

Postby mattty » Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:01 pm

hercule wrote:What makes festool so special ? As those that know me know I'm a carpenter
Recently tried the little festool cxs cordless drill. Amazing bit of kit. So light and plenty of guts. This lead me to my dewalt plunge saw. Was never satisfied with the pita blade change mechanism or the fact that the tracks when joined together had an amazing amount of out of squareness (is that a proper word)
So I sold that on the bay and picked up a ts55.
Next up the jigsaw. It's the one go to tool that always pisses me off. My makita is crap. I've owned Bosch Dewalt etc etc etc. tried the carvex Wow it made a horrendous tool into a pleasure to use. I do believe the festool range is 2nd to none. I've tried them all over the years. And even when you compare costs with other makes of power tool. They don't seem to bad all
My tools get worked hard. And I'm back on the festool wagon.
What's everyone's opinion?
Bearing in mind my veritas planes look like they have dragged up from the bed of the North Sea !


What this one? :o
Image
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Re: Festool and the working man

Postby Leveller2911 » Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:06 pm

hercule wrote:See that's what gets me. Anti festool. A top of the range Bosch jigsaw is circa £150. A carvex is £200. Agree it's £50 more. But the cost is negligible. A top of the range dewalt chopsaw is over £600. sh*t dust extraction takes up loads of room and is never 100% accurate. I agree with the taxi thing. Much the same as an Austin allegro will get you from a to b.
each to there own I suppose



:lol: Where is the "anti Festool"?. If I was anti Festool I wouldn't have a Domino . I just don't see any advantage of paying £1,000-00 for a Kapex KS120 EB with a max capacity cut at 90 degrees of 305 x88 ,It won't even cut ex 4" timber, which is poor in my opinion. When I can buy a Makita LS1018L for less than £560-00 and it will cut over 12" x 4".Is the Kapex worth paying almost 100% more for?, not in my opinion no.

Festool Router OF 220EB router costs around £800-00, but will that router make me any more money that a Trend T11EK costing £289-00. They both have very similar spec. The difference in prices of these tools are not even close, over £500 difference on the router and £400-00 on the Kapex.


As you say its down to personal choice, I'm tight and would rather have the difference in the bank ready to spend on something else I need.If Festool kit was cometative on price I would def consider them, but they aren't.

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Re: Festool and the working man

Postby karl » Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:07 pm

:shock:

Shame on you Mike !!!!

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Re: Festool and the working man

Postby hercule » Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:22 pm

Cool pic Matty. It looks even worse now.
Wasn't having a dig by saying anti festool. But as you say if makita or dewalt did. I would buy ?
They do make a track saw and it's sh*t. I mean proper sh*t. Will see how well the festool loves up to being abused

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Re: Festool and the working man

Postby hercule » Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:26 pm

1 more thing I'm not sure which dealer you use but your pricing is way off the mark. Kapex full kit £800
Router £600
Cs15 £300
Ts55 inc rails and bag etc £380.
Agree it's expensive but factor in the 3 year warrantee and theft replacement for £100 not z bad deal really it pays to shop around x

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Re: Festool and the working man

Postby karl » Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:27 pm

I didn't get on with my DW track saw either Mike.

I bought the Makita. 3 years in and no problems or regrets - I bought the 3mtr rail to avoid having to join 2.

Cheers

Karl

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Re: Festool and the working man

Postby senior » Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:36 pm

hercule wrote: Kapex full kit £800


Could you put up a link or give me a name for that, would be very handy, thanks.
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Re: Festool and the working man

Postby Leveller2911 » Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:43 pm

[
quote="hercule"]1 more thing I'm not sure which dealer you use but your pricing is way off the mark. Kapex full kit £800
Router £600

Agree it's expensive but factor in the 3 year warrantee and theft replacement for £100 not z bad deal really it pays to shop around x
[/quote]


Its still over double the price of any other trade brand , 3 yr warranty is pretty much the industry standard now. The theft replacement is ok but a gimmick in that the vast majority of tradesmen don't leave power tools in the van overnight and if they do they would probably have them insured anyway. If the Festool router didn't need a guy standing there holding it when its working I would def buy one, but IMO it does the same job as other routers.

With regards to warranties ,Just a side note but Iv'e had 4 Makita Li-ion batteries go pop now and Makita have replaced all 4 outside of the warranty period. I have lost some confidence in Makita given the issues with batteries.

Wasn't it the Allegro (agro) that had a square steering wheel? Classic design masterpiece....... :lol:

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Re: Festool and the working man

Postby chippy1970 » Fri Jan 03, 2014 6:41 pm

hercule wrote:Kapex full kit £800


You wouldn't get the full kit for that unless it's stolen. I just bought the full ug set over Xmas and cheapest I got it down to was around £1320 Inc vat then I used festool vouchers to bring it down a bit but nowhere near £800.

I see you've just posted on the FOG :)

I like festool stuff and like the quality of it but don't only use their stuff. Only drill I have of theirs is the little cxs and I mainly got that for the angle attachment. For main drills my makitas are fine. The ts55 started me off back in 2007.

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Re: Festool and the working man

Postby bob » Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:47 am

These guys run rings round Festool, They just need a better marketing team

http://www.mafell.de/index.php?id=1&L=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Festool and the working man

Postby mark270981 » Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:56 am

Never used Mafell to be fair

I have a lot of festool kit.

Perhaps about 6ks worth so I do think it's worth it - however I think the ets sanders are poor and we are forever sending them back everything else is great.
--------------------------------------------------------------
ALOTBSOL

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Re: Festool and the working man

Postby PABLO123 » Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:31 pm

I've got the Festool domino, only because it was for a specific job that was going to be on going, but it fell through (bad payers) I
still biscuit my frames to the carcases when I do my kitchens its just as quick and cheaper, I think the dominoes are over priced aswell
My domino has been sat under the bench for 7 months unused. I've also used the Festool and Makita track saws, if I was going to buy one I'd
by the Makita, because it was just as good, but cheaper, I think the Festool stuff is over priced, its all in the marketing they brainwash people
in to thinking everything has to be black and green and fit in boxes, just my 2p worth :lol:

Paul

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Re: Festool and the working man

Postby chippy1970 » Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:39 pm

Well I've had a festool tracksaw since 2007 and I work with three guys that have the makitas so I get to compare them all the time. To say they're as good isn't true sorry. Bits fall off their Makita saws all the time. There's a rubber button on top of the saw that sets the saw for scribing, this has fallen off all three saws so the pin keeps locking the plunge depth to 5mm which is annoying. Also the rails are nowhere near the quality of the festool ones I use the Makita ones a lot and they don't grip as well as the festool ones. I never feel as confident cutting with the Makita unless it's clamped as it does slip.

Ps I'm no festool fan boy I'm just giving my honest opinion.

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Re: Festool and the working man

Postby hercule » Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:17 pm

You wouldn't get the full kit for that unless it's stolen. I just bought the full ug set over Xmas and cheapest I got it down to was around £1320 Inc vat then I used festool vouchers to bring it down a bit but nowhere near £800.

It appears the dealer I use had got hold of two kapex kits. That had been returned under the festool 30 day (useitandabuseitpolicy)
No warranty on the machines at all. So my mistake on the pricing there.

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Re: Festool and the working man

Postby chippy1970 » Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:02 pm

I wondered what they did with those

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Re: Festool and the working man

Postby Meccarroll » Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:36 pm

Years ago when I was a lad we had a bag of 'hand tools' and that was it!

If you wanted 20m or 200m of floor-boarding cut down it was the hand saw that did the work and it never let you down. Drilling holes was also mainly done with a hand drill and that worked well too. We never had a problem with batteries running out or motors burning out either.

Workmanship from years ago is comparable to today's if not better.

Power tools have made things a lot easier, but they are still just tools, a good product is made by a good craftsman behind the tools, not the tools he uses.

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Re: Festool and the working man

Postby senior » Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:17 pm

Meccarroll wrote:Years ago when I was a lad we had a bag of 'hand tools' and that was it!

If you wanted 20m or 200m of floor-boarding cut down it was the hand saw that did the work and it never let you down. Drilling holes was also mainly done with a hand drill and that worked well too. We never had a problem with batteries running out or motors burning out either.

Workmanship from years ago is comparable to today's if not better.

Power tools have made things a lot easier, but they are still just tools, a good product is made by a good craftsman behind the tools, not the tools he uses.


do you still wipe your ar*e on newspaper?
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Re: Festool and the working man

Postby Meccarroll » Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:29 pm

senior wrote:
Meccarroll wrote:Years ago when I was a lad we had a bag of 'hand tools' and that was it!

If you wanted 20m or 200m of floor-boarding cut down it was the hand saw that did the work and it never let you down. Drilling holes was also mainly done with a hand drill and that worked well too. We never had a problem with batteries running out or motors burning out either.

Workmanship from years ago is comparable to today's if not better.

Power tools have made things a lot easier, but they are still just tools, a good product is made by a good craftsman behind the tools, not the tools he uses.


do you still wipe your ar*e on newspaper?


Funny you should say that ................. Years ago!

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Re: Festool and the working man

Postby hercule » Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:53 am

karl wrote:I didn't get on with my DW track saw either Mike.

I bought the Makita. 3 years in and no problems or regrets - I bought the 3mtr rail to avoid having to join 2.

Cheers

Karl

Some my poet bought mind from the bay.
Of course it's only had light use and never abused
Serious though mate the dewalt saw ain't bad when using festool rails. Might aswell buy the festool. Not used the makita one Karl

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Re: Festool and the working man

Postby hercule » Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:54 am

Muppets. Not auto poet !!

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Re: Festool and the working man

Postby hercule » Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:00 pm

Adding to this. I was always sceptical of festool drills and the cost involved.
I use a makita impact every day for the past 2+ years. The noise is terrible. Next one is the Bosch 18 volt li-on. Cracking battery life but rubbish chuck. It drops everything you lock into it! Not good when your working on a 10k kitchen. So I binned that. Gonna try the c15. Now I don't think it's to overpriced I paid 360 inc vat. I gave 200 for the Bosch. Instantly the festool is lighter and comfiest so far. Aeeing as most of my fingers point in all different directions it works for me.
Will update after a few weeks of real life abuse

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Re: Festool and the working man

Postby jake » Sat Jan 11, 2014 1:54 pm

You won't regret it Mike. The C drills are great - so powerful, so comfortable, great battery life and the little things like the mag strips down the front for bits and such are so thoughtfully done. You might want to get the better bit holder (BHS65 I think is the code).

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Re: Festool and the working man

Postby hercule » Sat Jan 11, 2014 5:13 pm

I'm hoping so jake. Did a lot of research before deciding on the c15.
But I think coupled with the cxs it will suffice for everyday use. It's so much lighter and it does fit my funny shaped hands very well

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Re: Festool and the working man

Postby senior » Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:46 pm

Just ordered a kapex 120
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Re: Festool and the working man

Postby chippy1970 » Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:55 pm

senior wrote:Just ordered a kapex 120


:) where did you order it from Bob

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Re: Festool and the working man

Postby senior » Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:31 pm

chippy1970 wrote:
senior wrote:Just ordered a kapex 120


:) where did you order it from Bob


Same as you I think, N&B
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Re: Festool and the working man

Postby chippy1970 » Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:07 am

Yeah they're a good company and the cheapest around for festool.

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Re: Festool and the working man

Postby kevob » Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:53 am

Ive got a few festools and like them but i was very disappointed in the 110v kapex - a site saw that will not run on a generator
I now have to find out if there is power on site, if not i have to take my old dewalt

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Re: Festool and the working man

Postby Meccarroll » Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:56 pm

kevob wrote:Ive got a few festools and like them but i was very disappointed in the 110v kapex - a site saw that will not run on a generator
I now have to find out if there is power on site, if not i have to take my old dewalt


Why will the Festool chop saw not work with a generator?

What is the problem?

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Re: Festool and the working man

Postby kevob » Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:21 pm

Something to do with the electronics in the motor

I had heard rumours before I bought it so I called festool and they told me if my generator will run a ts55 it will run a kapex but it wont
I have tried at least 10 different generators but none work

Apparently they need a clean supply of electric and was told an inverter generator might work but I have not been able to find one that is big enough and has 110v supply

I have been using it this week with a 70m cable running to the site cabin and it runs at about 1/3 speed, my dewalt bench saw runs fine and they are a similar size motor :x

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Re: Festool and the working man

Postby Meccarroll » Sat Mar 29, 2014 8:10 am

kevob wrote:Something to do with the electronics in the motor

I had heard rumours before I bought it so I called festool and they told me if my generator will run a ts55 it will run a kapex but it wont
I have tried at least 10 different generators but none work

Apparently they need a clean supply of electric and was told an inverter generator might work but I have not been able to find one that is big enough and has 110v supply

I have been using it this week with a 70m cable running to the site cabin and it runs at about 1/3 speed, my dewalt bench saw runs fine and they are a similar size motor :x


Sounds odd that the 110v kapex sit saw does not perform well in a site environment. These saws are mainly designed for on site use and so should work under site conditions.

A generator/transformer and 50m lead are commonly used to supply power tools of this type on site. We are currently running both Makita and Dewalt chop saws from transformers with 30 and 50m extension leads with no problems.

If it won't do the job it's not worth owning is it?

You might find the below link interesting.

http://toolmonger.com/2012/02/08/has-bo ... the-kapex/

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Re: Festool and the working man

Postby kevob » Sat Mar 29, 2014 5:15 pm

My previous saw was the dewalt 717xps with the dewalt stand, now if i could fit it onto the festool ug stand i would be set
The stand makes the kapex - nice flat surface with finger stops, folds up easy and has wheels
The only good point of the kapex is the bevel adjustment other than that the dewalt tops it in every other respect

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Re: Festool and the working man

Postby chippy1970 » Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:27 pm

Its a common problem running any 110v tools with electronic speed control not just festool on a generator. Don't ask me why I'm not a Sparx but I've had it before with an elu router. I don't often use a generator luckily.

PS I have a 110v kapex and it runs fine off my 3.3kva tranny. Also I wouldn't in anyway compare a dewalt to it, dewalt just don't have the build quality in my experience.

Sent from my Hudl HT7S3 using Tapatalk

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Re: Festool and the working man

Postby kevob » Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:23 pm

chippy1970 wrote:Its a common problem running any 110v tools with electronic speed control not just festool on a generator. Don't ask me why I'm not a Sparx but I've had it before with an elu router. I don't often use a generator luckily.

PS I have a 110v kapex and it runs fine off my 3.3kva tranny. Also I wouldn't in anyway compare a dewalt to it, dewalt just don't have the build quality in my experience.

Sent from my Hudl HT7S3 using Tapatalk


I have several tools with electronic speed control and all run fine on a genny
My kapex will run fine on every tranny Ive tried but not a genny

I think my comparison with the dewalt is fair since I own both and have extensively used both, the table fence and casings are all comparable, I cannot say for internal components but have worked the dewalt hard for 5+ years without a problem
The kapex may have a slightly cleaner cut but the xps beats the kapex laser by a long way
The kapex is probably a more refined saw but not being able to run off a generator is a major flaw
Its twice the price but a long way off twice the saw -Its actually worse in some areas


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