Hammer C3-31 dished fence

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thatsnotafestool
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Hammer C3-31 dished fence

Postby thatsnotafestool » Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:52 pm

"And which part of Sir's fence would Sir like to be 90 degrees to the planer table ?"

AKA why the Hammer fence is dire.

Image

What else is bad about it ?

When you tighten up the locking knob when using it on the table saw, it shifts its setting so you have to unlock it, adjust, have another go, unlock it, adjust, have another go ....

When you put it onto the planer, and leaving aside the dished surface, trying to get it vertical is a joke. You have to use one hand to hold the square against it, your second hand to tighten up the locking knob and your third hand to hang on for grim death trying to keep it vertical as you tighten up the knob.

Underwhelmed to say the least.
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Re: Hammer C3-31 dished fence

Postby Meccarroll » Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:22 am

Life is too short, It's about time you dumped that Roger!

Go out and buy some nice three phase machines and start enjoying your woodwork again.

Good time to buy in winter :-)

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Re: Hammer C3-31 dished fence

Postby thatsnotafestool » Sat Dec 15, 2018 7:05 am

Meccarroll wrote:Life is too short, It's about time you dumped that Roger!

Go out and buy some nice three phase machines and start enjoying your woodwork again.

Good time to buy in winter :-)


I am so.o.o tempted. I'm so hacked off with those bloody flip-up tables to convert to thicknessing mode. Take off the fence. Make sure the table saw control knob is off. Swing humungous power feeder out of the way as much as I can...otherwise I have to take the table saw guard off (again). Open planer tables. Lift them up. Swing the dust chute into position. Start winding the thicknesser table up. Continue winding. Carry on winding. Gosh...is it that time already ? Carry on winding. Do thicknessing. Start winding thicknesser table down. Etc etc
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Re: Hammer C3-31 dished fence

Postby Meccarroll » Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:21 am

thatsnotafestool wrote:
Meccarroll wrote:Life is too short, It's about time you dumped that Roger!

Go out and buy some nice three phase machines and start enjoying your woodwork again.

Good time to buy in winter :-)


I am so.o.o tempted. I'm so hacked off with those bloody flip-up tables to convert to thicknessing mode. Take off the fence. Make sure the table saw control knob is off. Swing humungous power feeder out of the way as much as I can...otherwise I have to take the table saw guard off (again). Open planer tables. Lift them up. Swing the dust chute into position. Start winding the thicknesser table up. Continue winding. Carry on winding. Gosh...is it that time already ? Carry on winding. Do thicknessing. Start winding thicknesser table down. Etc etc


To be honest Roger, my planer thicknesser is a bit the same, I have to remove my fence then flip both surface tables out of the way and do the wind up/down bit on the thicknesser table too, and yes it is a PITA. I have been thinking of buying a wadkin or similar 12x8" planer thicknesser just so I don't have to go through the process. For me it's often the time spent doing these extra things that means run of the mill items don't come out as a realistic price. Sometimes I work in well equipped joinery shops as a sub-contractor and it always seems a lot easier and quicker to make the same item in a large well equipped shop. Space and the right equipment make a huge difference on both time and profit.

Go on Roger treat yourself, it's christmas!!!

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Re: Hammer C3-31 dished fence

Postby thatsnotafestool » Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:24 am

TBH I can't see ANY advantage of a machine with flip-up tables.
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Re: Hammer C3-31 dished fence

Postby woodsmith » Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:57 am

I had a portable DeWalt thicknesser for years, took up little space in the workshop and handled 95% of the thicknessing. Wore it out in the end and now have a Jet thicknesser which is still a comparatively small footprint. Life's too short to muck about converting planer thicknessers.
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Re: Hammer C3-31 dished fence

Postby thatsnotafestool » Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:01 am

I agree, Keith, and which is why I'm looking at a dedicated secondhand machine....3 phase

I still use my Delta thicknesser that I've had for years especially for very thin stock. But it is pretty knackered now..the rise and fall graunches badly plus it's a bloody noisy screamer. You can't beat an induction motor plus the Silent block on the Hammer.
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Re: Hammer C3-31 dished fence

Postby Meccarroll » Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:27 am

thatsnotafestool wrote:TBH I can't see ANY advantage of a machine with flip-up tables.


Nor can I, they just waste time but a lot of the small-medium sized machines have them :D

Sedgwick are nice cast machines that you don't have to bother about flip up tables but you can not take enough off in one pass. I used a sedgwick P/T in a boat yard that also had a wadkin 12" P/T and the wadkin was far better at reducing the timber to size. I think you are, mainly, better off with dedicated machines. Combinations are ok if you are very organised with your workflow but can be a pain. Like when you place all the sections of a number sashes in piles for thicknessing and you put the bottom rails on another bench go to do the machining then realise you forgot to put the bottom rails through then have to do a strip down :cry: That's where individual machines make life so easy. LoL

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Re: Hammer C3-31 dished fence

Postby JonR » Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:23 pm

I made do with my Kity 637 for a long time and it was less of a PITA when I removed the extraction chute and used a home made hood when thicknessing and one for surfacing which was clamped by thicknessing table. Maybe try removing yours and see how it goes before shelling out. I got a Felder silent cutter PT but lifting the beds is a still a pain but at least it all goes back bang on everytime.

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Re: Hammer C3-31 dished fence

Postby thatsnotafestool » Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:55 pm

Yup..I've also got the Silent Cutter on my Hammer and that IS a nice feature - as are the digital scales/controls. There is a safety interlock I'd have to work round if I didn't use their chute.

I do have a feeling that the Felder I've been looking at is yet another scam.
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Re: Hammer C3-31 dished fence

Postby katellwood » Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:30 pm

I'm on my third combination machine and my second Felder and whilst I can see the point of some of the above comments and essentially agree I run a combi due to workshop size

That being said and being a one man band one advantage I have exploited is the use of a long sliding table with the spindle. when you want to straighten and square large lumps of timber which you would struggle with over the surfacer holding tight to the fence I put a tall block in the spindle and clamp the timber to the slider. gives a perfect square/straight edge to the face side and you don't need to be Hercules to achieve it

An example can be seen in my gates thread viewtopic.php?f=9&t=13444&p=133784#p133784

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Re: Hammer C3-31 dished fence

Postby thatsnotafestool » Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:02 am

Thanks for the link to that thread which I missed first time round. I'm going to look forward to reading that.

It's a good tip but had you thought of a power feeder on your planer ? This is mine with a 4.4m length of timber being prepped for skirting. (bottom LH corner)

Image

I like your idea of removing the handles on the control wheels...the number of times I've caught them.

One of my other 'gripes' about the Hammer is the lack of support especially around the spindle moulder. I've got to make many, many metres of skirting to a particular profile and have two 2m lengths of aluminium channel that I'm proposing to fit as infeed and outfeed supports for that 4m length. My thoughts are to make the fixing arrangements versatile enough that I can have the flat of the channel uppermost for moulding wider stock and the channel - acting as a channel - when feeding that relative thin and flopping about 4m length. The idea being that the raised sides will keep it in the groove as it were.

Maybe I'm being too ambitious in trying to prep a 4+ metre length in one go. We shall see.
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Re: Hammer C3-31 dished fence

Postby katellwood » Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:53 pm

thatsnotafestool wrote:Thanks for the link to that thread which I missed first time round. I'm going to look forward to reading that.

It's a good tip but had you thought of a power feeder on your planer ? This is mine with a 4.4m length of timber being prepped for skirting. (bottom LH corner)

Image

I like your idea of removing the handles on the control wheels...the number of times I've caught them.

One of my other 'gripes' about the Hammer is the lack of support especially around the spindle moulder. I've got to make many, many metres of skirting to a particular profile and have two 2m lengths of aluminium channel that I'm proposing to fit as infeed and outfeed supports for that 4m length. My thoughts are to make the fixing arrangements versatile enough that I can have the flat of the channel uppermost for moulding wider stock and the channel - acting as a channel - when feeding that relative thin and flopping about 4m length. The idea being that the raised sides will keep it in the groove as it were.

Maybe I'm being too ambitious in trying to prep a 4+ metre length in one go. We shall see.


Yes I can see your thought processes however the issue for me on the gates was not machining the face side which i managed adequately but machining the edge straight and square which would arguably requiring the power feed to be set with the wheels vertically to hold the timber tight against the fence.

The problem being that probably same as the Hammer the fence on my Felder would not take that sort of pressure as its secured at the start of the infeed table and as such can flex a bit. This is because the fence is shared both on the saw table and planer. one of my few bugbears with the felder.

Hope you enjoy the thread

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Re: Hammer C3-31 dished fence

Postby thatsnotafestool » Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:13 pm

Oh yes !! I see where you're coming from...Brilliant idea, thanks.

Need a clapping hand emoticon !
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Re: Hammer C3-31 dished fence

Postby Jonathan » Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:54 am

Rodger
I use my hammer a331 and power feeder to face side and edge and it works a treat, saves a bunch of time and makes it real easy on big long lengths, I give the fence a little extra support, prop a piece of wood between the back of the fence and something.
Also made some in, outfeed tables like yours.

Also if I remember correctly you was looking for an easy way to fix a sacrificial fence to the spindle fence, I use 10mm MDF or melamine and screw it to a wooden block that fits into the end of the aluminium extrusion. I have a sacrificial fence made up for every cutter I have, and keep them all in a library and document all the notes/settings on them, would post some photos but alas I'm not that clever.....
Jonathan.

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Re: Hammer C3-31 dished fence

Postby thatsnotafestool » Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:40 am

Jonathan

I'd also thought about adding some wood to support the far end of the fence...it desperately needs it! Does your approach work with a 4 x 1 board upright ...I did try it and it all went a bit ting-tong TBH which is why I liked Katellwood's approach.

I like your idea for adding a sacrificial fence..if only I'd thought about that approach. Presumably you have a small step in it to bring the face flush with the front of the fence ? I ended up tapping into the fences to take 6mm csk bolts through the sacrificial fence. I made a right cod's of it as I didn't check down inside the extrusion first and ended up trying to drill down the reinforcing ribs. Couldn't understand why the drill bit kept wandering :oops:
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Re: Hammer C3-31 dished fence

Postby thatsnotafestool » Thu Dec 27, 2018 4:54 pm

katellwood wrote:.... I have exploited is the use of a long sliding table with the spindle. when you want to straighten and square large lumps of timber which you would struggle with over the surfacer holding tight to the fence I put a tall block in the spindle and clamp the timber to the slider. gives a perfect square/straight edge to the face side and you don't need to be Hercules to achieve it

An example can be seen in my gates thread viewtopic.php?f=9&t=13444&p=133784#p133784

I've had a chance to try this. Brilliant, thanks. Works a treat.
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Re: Hammer C3-31 dished fence

Postby katellwood » Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:04 pm

Glad to be of help.

Its good that we can all learn from each other, its what forums are for

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Re: Hammer C3-31 dished fence

Postby Jonathan » Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:51 am

Rodger
Yes 4"x1" is no problem...I can get up to 12" high
[20181227_100623]
I will attempt to post an image, let's see if it works.
Regarsds the sacrificial fence, here should be some images to show my set up
[20181227_095406]
[20181227_095457]
[20181227_095534]

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Re: Hammer C3-31 dished fence

Postby thatsnotafestool » Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:55 am

katellwood wrote:Glad to be of help.

Its good that we can all learn from each other, its what forums are for


Summats gone pear-shaped ! Help !!!

Trying to face off using the spindle moulder but the timber isn't really wide enough to clamp to the sliding table. So I tried using the power feeder (pressing downwards) but found that with timber that's bowed, I don't get a straight edge. Seems to me that if I feed it in concave side to the fence that the end of the timber throws out the line once it starts to hit the infeed fence. I can't see any way round that unless I pre-plane most of the bow out...which kinda defeats the object.
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Re: Hammer C3-31 dished fence

Postby Jonathan » Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:56 pm

Rodger......try moving the power feeder to the outfeed fence....
Or.....Another option is to fix a MDF sled up on the slider so its nearly touching the cutter....secure the timber...run it past the the cutter

Hope that makes sense....

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Re: Hammer C3-31 dished fence

Postby thatsnotafestool » Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:43 am

Thanks for the idea, Jonathan. The feeder has two rollers on the outfeed and one on the infeed. I like the idea of the MDF sled. Will bear it in mind for next time. In the end, I went back to basics and used the planer.
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Re: Hammer C3-31 dished fence

Postby Jonathan » Mon Apr 08, 2019 2:44 pm

Rodgers
You could fine that the one wheel on the infeed is the problem......its a bit like putting pressure on the in feed whilst planning.

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Re: Hammer C3-31 dished fence

Postby thatsnotafestool » Mon Apr 08, 2019 3:57 pm

Jonathan wrote:Rodgers
You could fine that the one wheel on the infeed is the problem......its a bit like putting pressure on the in feed whilst planning.



Doh! That makes a lot of sense.
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