WADKIN DR 30" band saw restoration in progress

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tool613
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WADKIN DR 30" band saw restoration in progress

Postby tool613 » Sun Dec 12, 2010 9:36 pm

i am new to this site and live in canada, and am looking for some information on a wadkin bandsaw that i am restoring. for the most part she is complete, but there is a hole in the bottom door i have no idea what it is for. can someone tell me?

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jack

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Re: WADKIN DR 30" band saw restoration in progress

Postby houtslager » Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:27 am

hi there Jack, and welcome to the nut house.
Iirc, that is a self made adaption to allow for sawdust extraction from as close as possible to the source.
This was often done in workshops to prolong bandsaw tyre life.

hth,

K
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Re: WADKIN DR 30" band saw restoration in progress

Postby tool613 » Mon Dec 13, 2010 7:49 am

houtslager wrote:hi there Jack, and welcome to the nut house.
Iirc, that is a self made adaption to allow for sawdust extraction from as close as possible to the source.
This was often done in workshops to prolong bandsaw tyre life.

hth,

K


i thought it may have been to adjust the guides ,but i am not sure. the hole does look wadkin made. like a handle knock out or something.

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the guides are nice but they don't look wadkin, can any one say?
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jack

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Re: WADKIN DR 30" band saw restoration in progress

Postby tool613 » Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:49 pm

the reason i ask about the guilds is this is what info i have on the saw.
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than i saw theses guilds on a Baeuerle saw
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they sure look the same.

any one care to comment?


jack

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Re: WADKIN DR 30" band saw restoration in progress

Postby wysong » Fri Dec 17, 2010 3:07 pm

did you have to put up the worst possible picture
of me ,here

Jack and his , here quick LOOK

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Re: WADKIN DR 30" band saw restoration in progress

Postby tool613 » Thu Dec 23, 2010 12:32 am

merry Christmas every one. have you got your shopping done? i have not had much time to do much on the band saw . here is where i am to day.

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table stops to two settings.
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the brake.
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Re: WADKIN DR 30" band saw restoration in progress

Postby jonnyd » Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:18 am

The restoration looks like its going very well Jack. I am almost tempted to do my bzb :D

cheers

Jon
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Re: WADKIN DR 30" band saw restoration in progress

Postby modernist » Thu Dec 23, 2010 9:42 am

That is a really top class job you're doing there Jack. I like the detailing.
Cheers

Brian


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Re: WADKIN DR 30" band saw restoration in progress

Postby interchippy » Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:16 am

Looking good, did you sand blast it before painting?

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Re: WADKIN DR 30" band saw restoration in progress

Postby tool613 » Thu Dec 23, 2010 4:08 pm

before i was about to take the wheel off and clean the grease out the bearings. i thought i would try to crown and true the tires. i set up a make shift tool rest and took my HSS lathe scraper chisel and tryed it on the rubber. worked real good. you could not be more true than this as this is the pivot for the wheel. the rubber tires are 3/8" think so there was lot of rubber for trueing. could do it a few more time if need in the furture. check it out

i took a pic half way through so its not as bad as it was.
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tool rest
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finished with 60 paper
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just have to do the upper wheel
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Re: WADKIN DR 30" band saw restoration in progress

Postby tool613 » Thu Dec 23, 2010 4:18 pm

jonnyd wrote:The restoration looks like its going very well Jack. I am almost tempted to do my bzb :D

cheers

Jon


jon

on my quest to rig the bench shop with Wadkin i am glade to be the new owner of this amazing saw. it has been lovingly restored to the 9s. the saw was from a furniture company that was the oldest in Canada and in operation for more than 170 years. it had been taken care of very well over its 60 years of service. i am proud to be building fine things with it and keeping up that tradition. have a look at the finest saw in the world too me.







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now if that don't make you want to restore your bzb that i wont show you my restored bursgreen bzf, it little sibling.


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Re: WADKIN DR 30" band saw restoration in progress

Postby jonnyd » Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:40 pm

That is seriously impressive Jack. These are my Wadkins all in good used working condition

BER 2 Spindle Moulder

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BER 4 Spindle Moulder

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LM Pillar Drill probably similar vintage to your saw

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The BZB 24

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I am probably gonna do a bit of restoration next year starting with the BER 4 and then the BZB

Can we see the pics of the BZF now :D

cheers

Jon
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Re: WADKIN DR 30" band saw restoration in progress

Postby promhandicam » Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:32 pm

Very impressive restorations Jack - I'm sure they are finished to a higher standard than any that left the factory, with the exception of ones that might have been displayed or demonstrated at shows. Thanks for sharing.

Cheers,

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Re: WADKIN DR 30" band saw restoration in progress

Postby jrm » Thu Dec 23, 2010 8:20 pm

Stunning work Jack. I love that table saw.

John

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Re: WADKIN DR 30" band saw restoration in progress

Postby mattty » Thu Dec 23, 2010 8:37 pm

Bloody hell :shock: They are looking good mate.
Cheers, Matt.

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Re: WADKIN DR 30" band saw restoration in progress

Postby karl » Thu Dec 23, 2010 8:44 pm

That table saw is a serious work of art. Nice one.

Cheers

Karl

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Re: WADKIN DR 30" band saw restoration in progress

Postby tool613 » Thu Dec 23, 2010 9:56 pm

jonnyd wrote:Can we see the pics of the BZF now



Jon


bursgreen was an English company that had made it name know by making light weight machines in the 30s and 40s. at that time cast machine were made in batches for future sale. bursgreen made plate steel frames with cast part to order that were selling at 1/3 of the cast ones. thats why Wadkin bought them out. in 1956 Wadkin buresgreen was on a lot of there machines. this saw is made before all this happened. its about a 1950 date.when i say that it is light i mean this 16" saw is #900 and has a 12' blade length. it is 2hp 3 phase with a tall table.

as i got it
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after
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Re: WADKIN DR 30" band saw restoration in progress

Postby seanybaby » Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:59 pm

Loving the dimsaw that's a real beauty :D

So much machinery porn, i'm loving it :lol:

I'm extremely impressed with your craftsmanship.

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Re: WADKIN DR 30" band saw restoration in progress

Postby mtr1 » Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:09 am

What an absolutely superb job on all your machines, can't wait to see the "big" bandsaw done now. Do you have to get many parts made? Or do you make them yourself? I noticed on the "small" bandsaw there was no table, how did you go about sourcing this? Or did you cast your own? I really like the spindle sander too, I could do with one myself. Now the nitty gritty....how much does all this cost? I am imagining It's a passion, so cost is irrelevant to you, or can it be done quite reasonably in relation to buying new comparable machines? Electric's, is there major work involved? Sorry for all the questions, but this is something that my brother(tractors), and father(vintage cars) like doing, and perhaps me now I've seen your efforts, well done.

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Re: WADKIN DR 30" band saw restoration in progress

Postby jonnyd » Fri Dec 24, 2010 10:07 am

Nice Job on the BZF Jack you are convincing me that i need to do mine.

Are these restorations of the wadkins documented in more detail on other forums as i would be interested to have a link to the threads

cheers

Jon
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Re: WADKIN DR 30" band saw restoration in progress

Postby stevep » Fri Dec 24, 2010 12:00 pm

Yes these really are superb restorations. Do you replace all the nuts and bolts, and how do you restore the manufacturers plates? A real pleasure to see these photos, thanks.

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Re: WADKIN DR 30" band saw restoration in progress

Postby Mr Ed » Fri Dec 24, 2010 12:32 pm

Amazing restorations - great to see so many photos.

I cannot even begin to imagine the hours that have gone into getting those machines to look like they do.

Ed

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Re: WADKIN DR 30" band saw restoration in progress

Postby tool613 » Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:28 pm

jonnyd wrote:Nice Job on the BZF Jack you are convincing me that i need to do mine.

Are these restorations of the wadkins documented in more detail on other forums as i would be interested to have a link to the threads

cheers

Jon



Jon your a hard sale. i have stood in front of a 24" bzf. unlike the bursgeen it is all cast arn with exception of the doors, that i think are aluminium. there was one here in ottawa for sale that needed tyres but was in fair shape for $3700. tell ya what, if you can tell me what type of machine the wadkin RS is i will show you mine with a vfd and video. but you have have to tell me what you think of the wadkin EQ spindle shaper. you see i am hunting it down and have passed on the newer BER.




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Re: WADKIN DR 30" band saw restoration in progress

Postby jonnyd » Fri Dec 24, 2010 5:00 pm

I believe the wadkin RS is a nice chunky lathe IIRC.

I have never owned a EQ but they are held in high regard over here. I've used them in a few shops i've worked in and there very solid and substantial pieces of kit. Dealers usually sell them here for £1500 - 2500 although you can get the odd bargain at auction or ebay. If you can get hold of one i'm sure you wont be disappointed.

I went with the BER's as they came up locally at a good price paid less than £500 for the pair.

You can see the similarities between the BZF and BZB I seem to recall reading that the BZB was actually a Bursgreen design that Wadkin took over but I could be wrong.

Cheers

Jon
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Re: WADKIN DR 30" band saw restoration in progress

Postby wadkin » Fri Dec 24, 2010 5:32 pm

hi jack,you are wrong about bursgreen only the 20 bzb is light weight,the mzf 16 was cast iron and the bzb 24 and 30 are cast iron and alloy doors 24 is 617 kilo thats 1560 1b and 30 840 kilo 1850 1b so not light weight.

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Re: WADKIN DR 30" band saw restoration in progress

Postby tool613 » Fri Dec 24, 2010 5:56 pm

jonnyd wrote:I believe the wadkin RS is a nice chunky lathe IIRC.


ding ding ding thats right.

Jon
you asked for a link to a post where theses machines can be see. its over at http://owwm.org/. they where never to much into the English kits over there so i asks if i could represent them as the British machine guy. they have agreed and i am the British guy. problem is i am in Canada and not even British. i really need you guy to help me out if you would. i am very green on the British stuff . in fact all i know is what i have gathered from taking the machines apart. i invite you all to help me best represent this fine machinery to the world of owwm. i am learning please teach me. i want to make it known that the British stuff is some of the best if not the best in the world. no one has come forward to help preserve this machinery so i offered to be that guy on owwm. the industry is in decline and many of these machine are scraped. i wish to save as many as i can.

ok now for the wadkin RS. http://owwm.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=70658




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this is one nice lathe with all the capacity i will need.

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watch it on YouTube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKr6lFud1g0


merry Xmas boys


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Re: WADKIN DR 30" band saw restoration in progress

Postby mattty » Fri Dec 24, 2010 6:02 pm

Bloody hell!, Another corker. How long did that take to restore?
Cheers, Matt.

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Re: WADKIN DR 30" band saw restoration in progress

Postby tool613 » Fri Dec 24, 2010 6:13 pm

wadkin wrote:hi jack,you are wrong about bursgreen only the 20 bzb is light weight,the mzf 16 was cast iron and the bzb 24 and 30 are cast iron and alloy doors 24 is 617 kilo thats 1560 1b and 30 840 kilo 1850 1b so not light weight.



all i can tell you is that when i restored mine it was welded steel plate 1/4" thick with 1/2" plate in places like the the table and trunnions.the table and motors mounts were cast parts. the wheels where aluminum.
the machine tag way bursgreen and not wadkin bursgreen . so i know this was before the wadkin take over of sagar bursgreen in 1956. and i thing sagar took bursgreen in 1952.

i would love to see cast mzf as i have never seen one before.
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Re: WADKIN DR 30" band saw restoration in progress

Postby tool613 » Sat Dec 25, 2010 12:39 am

i hope every one get what they wanted for Xmas.

got the switch station done thats it on the band saw. gotta go do the Santa thing.

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Re: WADKIN DR 30" band saw restoration in progress

Postby tool613 » Sun Dec 26, 2010 4:02 pm

the upper pulley assembled is very will made and as smooth as you know what. it has a bronzes pivot and a different type of spring tensioner than i have seen before.

the saw today.
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going to work on handles and tags today. all i have is this week to get it done. i hope i can



jack

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Re: WADKIN DR 30" band saw restoration in progress

Postby modernist » Sun Dec 26, 2010 5:23 pm

This is an amazing thread. I wonder how many of us were aware of Wadkin as high end but oldish kit only to be staggered by the quality of the engineering - truly from the peak of UK engineering dominance and able to be maintained almost indefinitely. We get exited about the latest minor variation on the re-badged Chinese kit which dominates the market forgetting that it is cheapo stuff made way down to the price.

As for the restoration that is equally stunning. I did spend some time in racing engines and sportscar restoration in my mis-spent youth and this is a similar standard. I take my hat off to you Jack.
Cheers

Brian


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Re: WADKIN DR 30" band saw restoration in progress

Postby tool613 » Mon Dec 27, 2010 1:45 pm

i am glade you guys are enjoying the thread. they are fun machines to restore. i have a smile :D on my face every time i use them. i have had people come to the shop and they do no believe that theses are 60 to 70 year old machines.




ok got the handle on the upper pulley done so i am on to the trunnions. there was no lock handle for the table so that is what i will make today.

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Re: WADKIN DR 30" band saw restoration in progress

Postby tool613 » Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:10 pm

many times handles or knobs are missing on machines that we get. we look through the manuals and catalogs to see if you can see what they look like. we will post here for others to show us pic of there machines so we can get or make the parts. i have shown this before ,but i will again for those that may had had this problem.

on the bandsaw the trunnion locking leaver was missing and i had to make one . it was not hard to make with off the shelf parts.here is what i did.

i found a bolt that would thread in and put it in the lathe.
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turned the hex head to size.
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i drilled a block of rose wood with counter bore and put a bronzes bearing and brass nut on and tightened it up
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i put it back in the lathe and turned it down,
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thread it into the part and install.
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jack

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Re: WADKIN DR 30" band saw restoration in progress

Postby jeffinfrance » Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:01 pm

they are absolutely beautiful.

i would consider them "custom" restorations...definately a cut above. out of the factory they would still put my new felder to shame.

stunning, well done.

jeff

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Re: WADKIN DR 30" band saw restoration in progress

Postby modernist » Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:23 pm

jeffinfrance wrote:they are absolutely beautiful.

i would consider them "custom" restorations...definately a cut above. out of the factory they would still put my new felder to shame.

stunning, well done.

jeff


Wot new Felder :shock: Lets have a look :mrgreen:
Cheers

Brian


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Re: WADKIN DR 30" band saw restoration in progress

Postby jeffinfrance » Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:43 pm

actually a year old now. perhaps i should start dropping the new. just that the last setup technician only left after his 3 day stint, in october! still feels new.

after seeing the pictures above, i'm not proud enough to show you mine. scales engraved on the table top, how cool is that. i cant even get two of the 5 scales on my machine to be made of the same matriel or measure the same.

gutted,

jeff

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Re: WADKIN DR 30" band saw restoration in progress

Postby modernist » Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:02 pm

jeffinfrance wrote:actually a year old now. perhaps i should start dropping the new. just that the last setup technician only left after his 3 day stint, in october! still feels new.

after seeing the pictures above, i'm not proud enough to show you mine. scales engraved on the table top, how cool is that. i cant even get two of the 5 scales on my machine to be made of the same matriel or measure the same.

gutted,

jeff


Think yourself lucky - Hammer users like me don't even get the technician!

Engraved scales - very

The surprising thing is that cast iron is a low cost material and generally considered to be the ultimate material for woodworking machines. Clearly then it is better to get a tuned up quality used machine than contemporary "made to a price", no matter how good, for the same cost. My extruded planer fence for example is slightly convex despite coming from the same illustrious Austrian factory.
Cheers

Brian


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Re: WADKIN DR 30" band saw restoration in progress

Postby jonnyd » Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:48 pm

Keep the pics coming Jack your work is second to none on these old wadkin beauties. I have been spending some time over at OWWM inbetween eating and drinking sessions and have really enjoyed looking at your threads over there. Have you found an EQ yet?

Cheers

Jon
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Re: WADKIN DR 30" band saw restoration in progress

Postby tool613 » Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:27 pm

jonnyd wrote:Keep the pics coming Jack your work is second to none on these old wadkin beauties. I have been spending some time over at OWWM inbetween eating and drinking sessions and have really enjoyed looking at your threads over there. Have you found an EQ yet?

Cheers

Jon



Jon
i have seen a few go by that i thought we to high in price. i will not take a shaper with out tooling. tooling cost will kill ya on the big shapers. i want at least 3 heads ,lock knifes,HSS for hard wood and soft. it has to have a feeder too. so i am picky. i just let the wilson go by for $250.

i could not see it running and so i walked away. i want a good tool not a project.
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Re: WADKIN DR 30" band saw restoration in progress

Postby tool613 » Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:25 am

i worked on the guilds and bearing . i am ready to put the upper wheel an put a power cord on it so i can fine tune the saw. i needed to make grease cups for the thrust bearings and i think they turned out alright. also cleaned the vice grip marks of the the adjuster's.

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jack


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