Spray finish MDF SE London

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London_Chippy
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Spray finish MDF SE London

Postby London_Chippy » Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:01 pm

Hi guys.

New to the forum. Hope you're all well and enjoying a beer after a long week.

Can anyone recommend anybody in South London who sprays MDF. Would be in situ, (doors could obviously be taken away) ie alcove units, wardrobes, under stair storage etc.

I'm getting alot of work coming in along these lines now and would be good to get some reliable people on board.

Many thanks in advance. :D
You wood, wooden' ya

JonR
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Re: Spray finish MDF SE London

Postby JonR » Sat Nov 24, 2018 11:03 pm

Thought of doing your own finishing at all? I bought a 4 stage hvlp fuji spray unit from Axminster but have only been using waterbourne primer to date but I feel more confident about having a go at top coats now, all that I primed was hand finished. What areas of south London exactly? I got a mate who sprays but distance might be an issue.

London_Chippy
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Re: Spray finish MDF SE London

Postby London_Chippy » Sun Nov 25, 2018 1:17 pm

JonR wrote:Thought of doing your own finishing at all? I bought a 4 stage hvlp fuji spray unit from Axminster but have only been using waterbourne primer to date but I feel more confident about having a go at top coats now, all that I primed was hand finished. What areas of south London exactly? I got a mate who sprays but distance might be an issue.


Hi JonR, thanks for the reply.

Did have a guy who started great, now unreliable and making my business look bad.. Not a good mix. Seems quite a niche market and am considering looking into finishing myself. Only problem with living in a London Flat, space to practice in non existent. Oh how I'd love a workshop!

How has your learning curve been? I'm sure I could pick it up. Heard various things. Some say use an oil based primer, some say Zinnser bin everything. Any insight on what you've found?

Regards to your mate who sprays. Im based in Crystal Palace and tend to work local, venture out to Dulwich, Bromley and Beckenham at timeS. Think they could help?

all the best
You wood, wooden' ya

promhandicam
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Re: Spray finish MDF SE London

Postby promhandicam » Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:24 pm

Welcome to the forum. With regards to spraying I use Morrells water bourne primer and lacquer with good results using an Earlex HVLP kit, although I have never used it on site. For hand painting I've just done a kitchen using Tikkurilia Otex Akva / Helmi paint and it is fantastic stuff.

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Re: Spray finish MDF SE London

Postby London_Chippy » Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:56 am

promhandicam wrote:Welcome to the forum. With regards to spraying I use Morrells water bourne primer and lacquer with good results using an Earlex HVLP kit, although I have never used it on site. For hand painting I've just done a kitchen using Tikkurilia Otex Akva / Helmi paint and it is fantastic stuff.


Hi Steve, thanks for the reply.

Do you use water Bourne primer on MDF?

I've just had two jobs where the doors have bowed significantly after spraying.

Job 1. The doors are 700 wide 2350 high sliding doors made using 12mm MDF with a 6mm overlay to create shaker border. When they came back from the guy who sprayed them two of the three were badly bowed, once back in the tracks the middle bellied out by 40/50mm. I counter bowed them and all seemed ok when I refitted. They were still fine and when I checked a few days later before I went on holiday. However, on my return 3 weeks later the client called me and inform me that the doors had bowed again meaning that they came off of the top track. I've been racking my brains, it's not a cheap MDF in fact it's medite and I'm using a joinery shop that I've been using for a while and is normally really good. I put it down to just maybe excess moisture in the doors from the factory and I've resorted to using Plano fit door straightening kit. Not ideal and not a cheap option.

Please do bear with me this.

Job 2. This job was fitted about a week before I went on holiday. Bespoke 4 door media TV unit type thing. Two large doors on the outside were the problem. They are 18mm 1300 high and 300ish wide. When I finished the fitting, I had no problems whatsoever. the doors were not in wind and were fitting perfectly against the carcasss. The job is then left for a week before I go away and my spraying guy got a chance to get in there. While I was away on holiday, nearing the end nearly a month after I had fitted everything, I get a text from the client asking me if there's any update on replacing the doors. I start thinking my spraying guys maybe drop the doors and damage them or something like this. I would sort it out on my return a couple of days later. It wasn't until I got back that my spray guy rang me and told me that the doors were badly bowed. He even mentioned that the doors seemed slightly bowed before he started spraying. I collected the doors, and I could see if they will quite bad. Over the length they were probably bowed 20/25mm. For the last week I've been in the process of trying to counter bow them. It's a long slow process and they seem to be reverting back to how they were when I collected each time I think they are ok. Bottom line is I'm going to have to replace then which is a pain. they're not just solid 18 mil they've got broken ogee moulding on etc and obviously they have to be sprayed.

If you with me thank you, if not I won't blame you!

So the question is, is this really down to a bad batch and just been unlucky with the MDF or is it possibly the way they've been sprayed? believe his process when spraying was to BIN it first. He also used tikkurila as the top coat..

Cheers
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promhandicam
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Re: Spray finish MDF SE London

Postby promhandicam » Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:08 pm

The only time I have had mdf doors bow significantly was wardrobe doors I supplied primed which the customers decorator was going to finish. Despite telling them that they had to be finished exactly the same inside and out, he didn't and surprise surprise they bowed. I wonder if when your doors are sprayed if one side is being allowed to dry fully before the other side is coated. This may be the problem, although not sure it would cause as big a bow as you are experiencing. One other thought, you say you are using medite mdf, but is it the moisture resistant version with the green core.

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Re: Spray finish MDF SE London

Postby JonR » Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:33 pm

I have been using Morrells 501 primer . Helmi is to thick for my hvlp but the Helmi primer went through ok with some flotrol added and a smidge of water.

Re job 1 I dont make doors with plant ons for shaker style it throws the door out of balance if you have to do it that way then maybe a 3 or 4mm mdf plant ons on both faces maybe be better. You mention Plano rods I had a look around for them but nowhere seems to do them anymore ie: Hafles.

Are you using Medite or Medite MR as most use the MR variety.
Ill catch up with my guy to see if hes interested.

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Re: Spray finish MDF SE London

Postby London_Chippy » Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:51 am

promhandicam wrote:I wonder if when your doors are sprayed if one side is being allowed to dry fully before the other side is coated. This may be the problem, although not sure it would cause as big a bow as you are experiencing.
One other thought, you say you are using medite mdf, but is it the moisture resistant version with the green core.


As far as I'm aware he sprays them on trestles, waits for them to dry and flips them for the other side. I'm a complete novice in the spraying side of things, are the door meant to sprayed both sides one after the other straight away? Even though they have been sealed with bin? how would someone go about spraying doors to get both sides?

Using MR
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London_Chippy
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Re: Spray finish MDF SE London

Postby London_Chippy » Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:14 am

JonR wrote:Re job 1 I dont make doors with plant ons for shaker style it throws the door out of balance if you have to do it that way then maybe a 3 or 4mm mdf plant ons on both faces maybe be better. You mention Plano rods I had a look around for them but nowhere seems to do them anymore ie: Hafles.

Are you using Medite or Medite MR as most use the MR variety.
Ill catch up with my guy to see if hes interested.


Having ventured into the bespoke built in slowly over the last couple of years, and now more so, I've always make my shaker doors with the 6mm mitre bonded onto the 12mm. With normal hinged doors, I have never seemed to encounter and balance issues. The doors have always had an even gap on the hinge side and not encountered any doors out of wind/plane. I can understand where you're coming from, Ref job 1, the doors ran nicely on the runners until sprayed.

Hafele still sell the Plano kits. You have to have an account to buy them. Part numbers 40790771 and 40790709 if you ever need.

Alternatively, I've found a company who make concealed rod and also face mounted. A bonus for me with the sliding doors. https://www.sws-eu.com/categories/door- ... eners/381/

Using MR board
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promhandicam
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Re: Spray finish MDF SE London

Postby promhandicam » Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:02 pm

All my shaker doors are made traditionally even when using mdf. I.e. the rails are scribed to fit the stiles and the panel is fitted into the groove before glueing up. With entirely mdf made doors the panel is glued into the frame. I usually use 22mm mrmdf for the frame and 9mm for the panel although do occasionally use 18mm /6mm. I personally wouldn't be happy relying on mitre bond to hold the imitation frame onto a door.

Good shout regarding the door straighteners - I've had to use the plano ones from hafele once and as you note they aren't cheap, but they did the job.

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Re: Spray finish MDF SE London

Postby Roger-M » Sat Dec 01, 2018 4:08 pm

London_chippy - I think if you are laying the external 6mm rails and stiles on the surface of a 12mm panel, just on one side, there lies your problem. I'm with Steve on this one - nothing wrong with Medite or MRMDF shaker doors, but the panel needs to be inset into a frame made of full thickness stiles and rails, just as if you were making it out of the solid.

I've had very acceptable results with an Earlex sprayer using Johnston's primer and eggshell top coats. Practice outside on some scrap and you soon get the hang of it. It's not rocket science unless going for a very high sheen mirror finish. I've heard that the Fuji kit is higher quality - you pays your money and takes your choice I guess.

Welcome to the forum btw! :)
Cheers, Roger

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Re: Spray finish MDF SE London

Postby London_Chippy » Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:04 am

Hi guys. Thanks for the replies.

Ive been talking this doors like this for a while now, mostly small alcove cupboard doors, and never had any problems with them. Slightly lazy on my part I know.

Incidentally, the doors that bowed the most were the flat 18mm. I think the plant ons bowed (2/3 also) due to the way the sprayer had them stacked.

Ive been watching and reading up on spraying my own stuff. Definitely the way forward. The more I watch and read about it, the more I think the more I think the guy who was doing my stuff was pulling my pants down!
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Re: Spray finish MDF SE London

Postby London_Chippy » Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:11 am

Roger-M wrote:
I've had very acceptable results with an Earlex sprayer using Johnston's primer and eggshell top coats.



Out of interest, what model and what are you spraying? Johnston's seems the choice of many for the primer. And what topcoat? Heard good stuff about Helmi but open to other suggestions.
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Re: Spray finish MDF SE London

Postby Roger-M » Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:56 am

London_Chippy wrote:
Roger-M wrote:
I've had very acceptable results with an Earlex sprayer using Johnston's primer and eggshell top coats.



Out of interest, what model and what are you spraying? Johnston's seems the choice of many for the primer. And what topcoat? Heard good stuff about Helmi but open to other suggestions.


I use an Earlex HVLP Pro which I bought about 6 years ago, and which had rave reviews. I think I paid about £150 for it, but I think the current equivalent is the HV5500. This seems to get mixed reviews.

I used it on my kitchen using the Johnstons primer and eggshell topcoat which was easy to apply and has been very durable. I'm NOT a professional - just an enthusiastic hobbyist - but people have been very complimentary about what I do. I don't have a spray booth so I had to do my spraying outside on a calm, dry day. The noise drove our neighbours mad! For the last batch of doors the weather wouldn't play ball, so I used a mini foam roller, de-nibbing between each coat, and frankly with the eggshell finish you can't tell the difference between that and the spray finish unless you mix the methods of application on the same piece. We have cupboards side by side - one sprayed and the other foam rollered - and you can't tell them apart. This may of course say more about my spraying than the foam roller :lol:

I have no experience with Helmi or with high gloss finishes. Also I've only used water based paints and not oil.
Cheers, Roger

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Re: Spray finish MDF SE London

Postby promhandicam » Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:44 pm

For furniture i personally would only use a paint specifically designed for spraying like Morrells. I've had to spray ordinary wb paint a couple of times and there's no comparison, especially when it comes to drying times.

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Re: Spray finish MDF SE London

Postby London_Chippy » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:38 am

JonR wrote:Thought of doing your own finishing at all? I bought a 4 stage hvlp fuji spray unit from Axminster but have only been using waterbourne primer to date but I feel more confident about having a go at top coats now, all that I primed was hand finished. What areas of south London exactly? I got a mate who sprays but distance might be an issue.


Hi JonR

After some research, Ive bitten the bullet and gone for the stage 4 Fuji ket with G-xpc gun. I'm building two alcove cupboards with bookcases next week and spraying the following week. After even more research, I've decided to use an acrylic Johnstone's primer and undercoat and a Helmi 30 top coat.

Wish me luck! :)
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JonR
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Re: Spray finish MDF SE London

Postby JonR » Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:57 am

Fair play, but Helmi is to thick for a hvlp we(my painter mate) tried it, prob is you cant thin helmi top coat it need an airless system to push it through. Send me a pm if you can and ill get him to call you hes very helpfull....talks alot tho!!

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Re: Spray finish MDF SE London

Postby thatsnotafestool » Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:07 pm

I've got an almost brand new Wagner airless sprayer for sale if that will do the Helmi.
The advantage of a bad memory is that one enjoys several times the same good things for the first time.
Friedrich Nietzsche


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