Maple Office Suite

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Pinch
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Re: Maple Office Suite

Postby Pinch » Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:39 pm

Leveller2911 wrote:Great thread Pinch and its nice to see quality work........


Thanks Lev, here's some more :)

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Re: Maple Office Suite

Postby Pinch » Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:40 pm

Update: Concealed compartments.

I didn't quite finish these today - lots of visitors :|

I had to make up several sized profiles including 5x70, 5x30, 8x17, 8x8 and 8x22 which was rebated and moulded.

Here are the 5x70mmx4no. oak glue laminated together to form the actual pull out trays.
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Here's also the 8x17 and 22...
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And here are some of the components glued in place...
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Here's a pair of compartment boxes which is 5x30mm maple - not cleaned at this stage...
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Here are various angles of the maple compartment boxes and oak pull out trays now as one entity...

Right hand...
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Right hand...
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Right hand...
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Right hand...
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Right hand...
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Left hand...
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Left hand...
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Left hand...
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Here's the left hand drawer bay with all components fitted apart from one...
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And now with the pull out tray/compartment box... You can now see the 'moustache' in place which has changed from the original plan. It was going to be the drawer stop, but it's now the pull for the pull out tray & compartment box. NB: The moustache hasn't been glued to the pull out tray at this stage.
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Here's the right hand bay with the tray in place, but without the moustache...
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And last of the components glued and held in place with the jack and smoother...
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Finally, one of the moustaches in glue assembly...
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There are three useful hiding places within one drawer bay; (1) the maple box (int. 50x222mm) at the back which can be used for various objects - perhaps of reasonable value or secretive; (2) a lower document cavity (slightly larger than A4) which is below the pull out tray and (3) upper document cavity which will be directly below the drawer panel. Once the main drawers are out from their housings, the pull out trays are very accessible and easy to operate.

Hope you like - I like :D

Cheers. 8-)

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Re: Maple Office Suite

Postby houtslager » Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:55 pm

I Like too

K
You name it, I'll butcher it.

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Re: Maple Office Suite

Postby Pinch » Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:49 am

houtslager wrote:I Like too

K


Thanks K 8-)

I think they're subtle and a bit of fun for the owner.

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Re: Maple Office Suite

Postby Pinch » Sat Nov 23, 2013 4:08 pm

I've been in the shop for a couple of hours today and thought this a good opportunity for those who have never worked with veneer before and are thinking about it in the future.

I haven't worked with veneer for a few years, and the last job I did was bird's eye maple and I made a big error :|

Veneering (including marquetry etc) is actually quite simple to do and some veneers (mainly burrs etc) need flattening before working. I don't have a vacuum press, so I'm using a cold press - boards, cambered cauls and plenty of G clamps. I will be using the same principle for gluing up as well. In fact, I will also be using the same boards to shoot in the two bird's eye maple panels too - after they've been flattened.

Here, I bought some standard 50x50PAR and cut to the lengths I need. I haven't created a slight camber at this stage.
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It's essential to be organised when preparing for this type of clamping work - not so much for flattening, but a good exercise anyway. So here, I've laid a centre bearing for the cauls to lay across which will make the G clamp application easy. I also marked where the outer cauls need to be in relation to the work.
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And then lay the ground board over the cauls...
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I then laid four layers of newspaper across the ground board. Some people won't use newspaper due to potential staining on the veneer, but I've never experienced this with a cold press... Before I continue, I came across a wonderful picture in one of the magazines which I've cut out and pinned to a truss - I like orangutans. Just thought I'd share this with you :D
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Then, I sprayed a mist of warm water (no solution) over the first bird's eye maple panel and laid this on the paper... Repeating this with more layers of paper, the other bird's eye maple panel, more paper and then carefully placing the top board over all of it. Then place the top cauls over the top board and clamp lightly, leaving for 30 mins and then tighten the clamps accordingly.
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I shall now leave this until Monday and check how it's doing. Some will say change the paper after a few hours with dry paper.

Cheers.
8-)

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Re: Maple Office Suite

Postby mattty » Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:23 pm

Really good thread this.
Cheers, Matt.

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Re: Maple Office Suite

Postby bdshim » Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:27 pm

i did this with same burr walnut once a day for 4 days was like leather afterwards, made sticking it down much easier with animal glue is used the animal glue as was a curved piece and when you get the glue right it kind of sucks the veneer down im not aware of anyone other glue like this, i love the stuff for the right job. im guessing you will be using pva/cascamite?

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Re: Maple Office Suite

Postby Pinch » Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:48 pm

mattty wrote:Really good thread this.


Cheers Matty 8-)

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Re: Maple Office Suite

Postby Pinch » Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:52 pm

bdshim wrote:i did this with same burr walnut once a day for 4 days was like leather afterwards, made sticking it down much easier with animal glue is used the animal glue as was a curved piece and when you get the glue right it kind of sucks the veneer down im not aware of anyone other glue like this, i love the stuff for the right job. im guessing you will be using pva/cascamite?


Cheers bd. The last time I used animal glue was 20 years ago and if memory serves, I was also gluing burr walnut. For this project, I'm using Tightbond.

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Re: Maple Office Suite

Postby bdshim » Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:55 pm

blimey we always use it at work, were i work must be a lost space in time :lol: would make sense i guess

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Re: Maple Office Suite

Postby sgiandubh » Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:27 pm

I've been meaning to say for a week or two that I've enjoyed dropping in on this thread to see your progress.

If you do happen to have trouble flattening your veneer this link from my website has some recipes and methods that might help. Slainte.

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Re: Maple Office Suite

Postby Pinch » Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:20 am

bdshim wrote:blimey we always use it at work, were i work must be a lost space in time :lol: would make sense i guess


I can't quite make sense of that, but yes, I know what you mean - I think :? 8-)

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Re: Maple Office Suite

Postby Pinch » Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:49 am

sgiandubh wrote:I've been meaning to say for a week or two that I've enjoyed dropping in on this thread to see your progress.

If you do happen to have trouble flattening your veneer this link from my website has some recipes and methods that might help. Slainte.


Thanks Richard and I'm glad you've enjoyed this thread - there's still plenty more to come. 8-)

Thanks also for the 'Flattening Veneer' link to your website - very thoughtful of you, cheers. I've had a look and it makes an interesting read. I shall check how the BEM is doing today and if it requires further attention, I shall go with one of your recipes.

:shock: I've just opened an email from my client this morning and they're pondering on the idea of also having a pair of the corner carvings on the rear elevation - eeek! I haven't yet replied, but I'll chat with them later. We did touch on this during an early consultation, but I advised against for two main reasons; (1) the desk is only 450mm deep and (2) its final resting place will be adjacent to a wall. I feel this will be too much for a narrow desk, but, if the client insists, I shall naturally go with it.

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Re: Maple Office Suite

Postby Leveller2911 » Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:07 pm

Hi Pinch,
Really enjoying this thread with the regular updates....

We are off to Borneo next August for 2 weeks to see the Orangutans in the wild along with Turtles,Pigmy Heffalumps etc.....

Company we booked the trip with paid for us to adopt a 1yr old Orangutan called "Beryl". :lol:

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Re: Maple Office Suite

Postby Pinch » Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:18 pm

Leveller2911 wrote:Hi Pinch,
Really enjoying this thread with the regular updates....

We are off to Borneo next August for 2 weeks to see the Orangutans in the wild along with Turtles,Pigmy Heffalumps etc.....

Company we booked the trip with paid for us to adopt a 1yr old Orangutan called "Beryl". :lol:


Excellent! Are you going to bring her home?

They make very good house pets, but try to keep your bar locked at all times otherwise you'll return home to find this...
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:lol:

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Re: Maple Office Suite

Postby Pinch » Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:20 pm

A quick update:

Today, I've only checked to see how the flattening of the BEM was doing and both panels are flat as a pancake. I shall leave them under clamp for a few more days as I shall be on the oak window project for the remainder of the week.

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Report back soon...

Cheers.
8-)

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Re: Maple Office Suite

Postby Pinch » Sat Nov 30, 2013 4:17 pm

I popped into the shop earlier to prepare and glue the BEM onto the desk's top.

After releasing the BEM panels from the press, I put the shooting board together to shoot in the mating edges using a sharp jack. Here, you can see the panels are in place ready for shooting in with approximately 5mm exposed.
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And then done...
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On inspection of the join, I then taped up the joint ready to cut the veneer to its approximate size. I used normal Sellotape which will be fine under a cold press.
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I also prepared the cold press ready for gluing the veneer onto the desk's top. It's good to be organised in preparation, making the actual gluing process a pleasurable task. Also, it isn't rude to stick a 'Please do not disturb' note on the shop door, preventing any potential atmospheres if somebody did walk in whilst gluing & pressing. My note read... "Please do not disturb - a buxom blonde is running around naked." Yeah yeah, in my dreams... But, there's nothing worse than conducting a vital gluing operation and somebody walks in with no understanding of the work's importance. Stick a note to the door and lock it.

Prepared and ready to go...
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Job done...
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I'll check it Monday morning.

Cheers,
8-)

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Re: Maple Office Suite

Postby Pinch » Sat Nov 30, 2013 7:17 pm

Just a quick one - looking for any opinions/critiques...

The other half is watching Strictly and I can't stand it (apart from Bruce's bit of speech slurring - bless him), so I started thinking about alternative lapped dovetail options for the two drawers in the project. Although I shall use the standard through dovetails at the back of the drawers, I don't particularly want to go with the normal lapped at the front. I'm thinking about making each joint slightly different to one another, but still doing the same job. Minor detail I know, but I like things like this.

Here are the four I've just come up with...
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That's one for each front corner.

Am I being daft or is this cool?? 8-)

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Re: Maple Office Suite

Postby Leveller2911 » Sat Nov 30, 2013 7:28 pm

Evening Pinch, I'm not a strictly fan either but Mrs Leveller loves its ,as does my daughter.Think there are lots of us "Strictly widowers" out there...

I'm a Joiner so rarely do furniture but lots of respect to some of the cabinet/furniture makers on here.

Out of the 4 you posted I think 3&4 are snazzy and just add a little something over 1&2 which look a little boring/dated IMO.

But I am a Joiner ............. :D

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Re: Maple Office Suite

Postby mark270981 » Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:33 pm

I am really enjoying this wip - I have been following it since day.
--------------------------------------------------------------
ALOTBSOL

Mark - Sutton Coldfield

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Re: Maple Office Suite

Postby Roger-M » Sat Nov 30, 2013 9:42 pm

Pinch wrote:Just a quick one - looking for any opinions/critiques...

The other half is watching Strictly and I can't stand it (apart from Bruce's bit of speech slurring - bless him), so I started thinking about alternative lapped dovetail options for the two drawers in the project. Although I shall use the standard through dovetails at the back of the drawers, I don't particularly want to go with the normal lapped at the front. I'm thinking about making each joint slightly different to one another, but still doing the same job. Minor detail I know, but I like things like this.

Here are the four I've just come up with...
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Image

That's one for each front corner.

Am I being daft or is this cool?? 8-)


Sorry Pinch, but I'm in the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" camp.

1 loses some strength in the non tapered parts of the joint. 2 doesn't look too pretty, 3 is better. I think 4 would be weak as the the thin end grain section would I think break under tension, and the remaining part of the joint would rely 100% on the glue and have no mechanical strength of its own. Traditional dovetails are simple and elegant and this lovely piece deserves an elegant solution IMHO. Just my two penn'orth.
Cheers, Roger

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Re: Maple Office Suite

Postby mattty » Sat Nov 30, 2013 9:43 pm

Its a no brainer for me on dovetails. Really thin pins and a standard layout is far and away the prettiest and most attractive, possibly the most functional/strong too. The ones you have drawn, even if well executed- which I am sure they would be, would, in my opinion spoil the lovely piece of furniture you are making.
Cheers, Matt.

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Re: Maple Office Suite

Postby promhandicam » Sat Nov 30, 2013 10:13 pm

No. 2 would have no strength at all other than the glue. Perhaps if the drawer were deeper then something like this might look good with different length pins.

Image

Maybe you could do it with the centre pin getting gradually longer from left to right, i.e. just a subtle difference, however I tend to agree with Matttttty, KISS ;)

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Re: Maple Office Suite

Postby Pinch » Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:58 am

Thanks for the feedback chaps.

That's decided then - conventional it is :lol:

Just thought I'd ask.

The trouble with me is... I'm always being drawn to the unconventional.

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Re: Maple Office Suite

Postby Pinch » Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:59 pm

A quick update:

Although I worked on my Landlord's windows during the last couple of weeks, I did manage to get in the odd hour here 'n' there on this project.

I'm currently working on the drawers and the desk top.

After releasing the veneer press, all was (or is) good - very pleased with the result. I'm in the process of trimming the BEM ready for the ebony string and cross banded maple edge. All will be revealed soon.

Now, the drawers... I've created a small video (below) for any of those hobbyist peeps who might be tackling dovetail joints in the near future. I haven't gone into huge depth with the law of gauging different sized tails/pins etc... but the fundamentals are there.

I cut these joints over a period of days after a day's work at the farmhouse. Today, when trying the drawers for the first time into their housings, I've encountered a booboo :| I can't believe what I've done! But, I can get over it and in fact, I like what I'm now in the process of doing to overcome this casual mistake. I shall reveal this very soon too.

Meanwhile, here's a short vid of making a 4 pin lapped dovetail joint for the desk drawers - using a panel saw :|

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0MGaYSYjKQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;"

Cheers,
8-)

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Re: Maple Office Suite

Postby hercule » Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:04 pm

Amazing work. It's not often you get to see such quality in modern day workshops.
A very talented man indeed

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Re: Maple Office Suite

Postby Pinch » Fri Dec 13, 2013 8:07 am

hercule wrote:Amazing work. It's not often you get to see such quality in modern day workshops.
A very talented man indeed


Thanks Hercule. I should be updating either over the weekend or early next week. I've got to take this afternoon off to finish Me Lady's Christmas shopping :x

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Re: Maple Office Suite

Postby Pinch » Sat Dec 14, 2013 4:48 pm

Update:

One of my neighbours down on the farm dropped into the shop earlier this week, sneezing away, saying she has a cold. I thought 'why are you coming in here with that!' :twisted: By Thursday, I started to feel a bit rough and by yesterday afternoon whilst Christmas shopping, I began feeling very rough and came home earlier than planned. Through last night, my temperature went sky rocket and I eventually woke this morning feeling bloody awful. But... after dosing myself with Ibuprofen, I managed to get to the shop by lunchtime. :D

Anyway, enough of my whinging... :lol:

I mentioned in my previous updated post that I made a silly mistake with the drawers. I still don't know how I did this, but I made the drawers approximately 4mm too narrow and because there are dividing track guides in the drawer housings (accommodating the concealed compartments), this wee issue was now a double whammy. I had two choices to get over this; (1) make new drawers or (2) adapt the newly made drawers to suit. I decided on option (2) and the more I thought of this, the more I liked it. This what I did... I had to form a tiny rebate at the bottom of the drawer sides which sorted out the issue with the dividing track guides. The next thing I did was glue two layers of veneer down each external side of the drawers - that's 0.6mmx4=2.4mm. I stuck maple as my first layer and then bird's eye maple as the second layer. The drawer fronts are also bird's eye maple (part of the original plan), so I figured having all the exposed (partially) elevations in bird's eye maple. I know I know... some of you won't like this and will probably disagree. The negatives: dovetails are now hidden (they're pretty good too) and climatic movement. Well, I'm not that fussed about the dovetails being hidden and as far as climatic movement is concerned, I really don't think there will be any problems. The positive: (and I'm probably being bias) it looks extremely 'ansome! I've never done this before and I am very pleased with the outcome.

The desk top: I've trimmed the BEM panels ready to receive the ebony string and maple cross band and it's now glued to the top unit. I shall finalise the arc around the corner carvings later.
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Here's a picture of one of the drawers with the front BEM in clamps - viewed from the back. I'm showing this as you'll probably wonder why I formed a shoulder like this on the back... I had another concealed plan up my sleeve and at the last minute, I changed my mind. The fact the back profile is now as thus will be of no consequence to anything.
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A finished drawer - left hand. The right hand drawer is back in clamps because I had to replace the front veneer.
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Here, you can see the moustache thingy lurking inside the drawer housing...
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Drawer in...
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And out pops the pull tray... Incidentally, the housings and trays have now been waxed and they glide in and out beautifully.
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That's it until the next update which will the top unit completely finished apart from finishing schedule.

Cheers,
8-)

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Re: Maple Office Suite

Postby Roger-M » Sat Dec 14, 2013 6:45 pm

Wow! Fabulous. Love the hidden drawer box and the drawer width FUBAR resolution. This is becoming a classic thread - please keep it it up Paul.
Cheers, Roger

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Re: Maple Office Suite

Postby paulchapman » Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:18 am

Looking great.

Cheers ;)

Paul

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Re: Maple Office Suite

Postby Pinch » Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:00 am

Roger-M wrote:Wow! Fabulous. Love the hidden drawer box and the drawer width FUBAR resolution. This is becoming a classic thread - please keep it it up Paul.


Thanks Roger. FUBAR :lol: Now there's one I haven't heard in ages. You've been watching too many American war movies.

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Re: Maple Office Suite

Postby Pinch » Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:01 am

paulchapman wrote:Looking great.

Cheers ;)

Paul


Thanks Paul 8-)

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Re: Maple Office Suite

Postby tusses » Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:04 pm

truly excellent craftsmanship !!!!!!

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Re: Maple Office Suite

Postby sgiandubh » Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:17 pm

Pinch wrote: Update:
I mentioned in my previous updated post that I made a silly mistake with the drawers. I still don't know how I did this, but I made the drawers approximately 4mm too narrow and because there are dividing track guides in the drawer housings (accommodating the concealed compartments), this wee issue was now a double whammy. I had two choices to get over this; (1) make new drawers or (2) adapt the newly made drawers to suit.

I understand why you might have made the choice you have to overcome the 'calculatory anomaly' (time already spent, energy expended, effort to remake, sourcing materials, etc all likely factors) but I'm one that isn't fond of your solution. It just doesn't look right to me because I can see the join line at the top of the drawer sides, and viewing it as a maker I ask myself what's being hidden?, and I'd suspect a compromise somewhere. It's likely most customers wouldn't even ask those sort of questions so it may not be an issue. Still, completely new drawers I think would have been the preferred solution, but I accept that compromises have to be made from time to time, so please don't consider my comments as unfair purist criticism - they're not. Slainte.

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Re: Maple Office Suite

Postby senior » Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:51 pm

sgiandubh wrote:I understand why you might have made the choice you have to overcome the 'calculatory anomaly' (time already spent, energy expended, effort to remake, sourcing materials, etc all likely factors) but I'm one that isn't fond of your solution. It just doesn't look right to me because I can see the join line at the top of the drawer sides, and viewing it as a maker I ask myself what's being hidden?, and I'd suspect a compromise somewhere. It's likely most customers wouldn't even ask those sort of questions so it may not be an issue. Still, completely new drawers I think would have been the preferred solution, but I accept that compromises have to be made from time to time, so please don't consider my comments as unfair purist criticism - they're not. Slainte.


They are really aren't they, it's a bit like saying "your fat", but please don't take that as criticism, it's likely most people may not notice, so don't take it as a fatist comment.

Best thread in a long time, great work.
Have a look at my facebook page and leave a comment or two.
Or browse my website Hand made kitchens Essex

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Re: Maple Office Suite

Postby sainty » Sun Dec 15, 2013 4:38 pm

If I understand Richard correctly, then I agree with him. Had the sides of the drawers been in maple then I think you would get away with it but I think you'll get pulled on that - it would certainly play on mind at delivery when the client opens the draw for the first time!

However, as everyone else has said, great work (apart from the draw sides ;-) ) and great thread.

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Re: Maple Office Suite

Postby sgiandubh » Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:42 pm

senior wrote: They are really aren't they, it's a bit like saying "your fat", but please don't take that as criticism, it's likely most people may not notice, so don't take it as a fatist comment.

My comments and criticisms were moderated by outlining what I understood to be countervailing factors that led to the decisions Pinch made. As I understood it, for example, he wanted to make something of a feature of the dovetails, otherwise why would he have put up drawings of possible layouts and asked for opinions on this very issue earlier? Now he's hidden them, but only after weighing up a variety of factors, many of which I suspect I outlined in my earlier post. So, yes, it is criticism, but it's reasoned criticism given with a measure of sympathy and understanding. I suspect Pinch is big enough to take it, and I also suspect he's probably already beaten himself up a bit over the mistake. Slainte.

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Re: Maple Office Suite

Postby senior » Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:54 pm

sgiandubh wrote:
senior wrote: They are really aren't they, it's a bit like saying "your fat", but please don't take that as criticism, it's likely most people may not notice, so don't take it as a fatist comment.

My comments and criticisms were moderated by outlining what I understood to be countervailing factors that led to the decisions Pinch made. As I understood it, for example, he wanted to make something of a feature of the dovetails, otherwise why would he have put up drawings of possible layouts and asked for opinions on this very issue earlier? Now he's hidden them, but only after weighing up a variety of factors, many of which I suspect I outlined in my earlier post. So, yes, it is criticism, but it's reasoned criticism given with a measure of sympathy and understanding. I suspect Pinch is big enough to take it, and I also suspect he's probably already beaten himself up a bit over the mistake. Slainte.


I see.......

You're fat because you ate too many cakes.
Have a look at my facebook page and leave a comment or two.
Or browse my website Hand made kitchens Essex

Pinch
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Re: Maple Office Suite

Postby Pinch » Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:58 pm

tusses wrote:truly excellent craftsmanship !!!!!!


Thanks Rich 8-)

Pinch
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Re: Maple Office Suite

Postby Pinch » Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:08 pm

sgiandubh wrote:
senior wrote: They are really aren't they, it's a bit like saying "your fat", but please don't take that as criticism, it's likely most people may not notice, so don't take it as a fatist comment.

My comments and criticisms were moderated by outlining what I understood to be countervailing factors that led to the decisions Pinch made. As I understood it, for example, he wanted to make something of a feature of the dovetails, otherwise why would he have put up drawings of possible layouts and asked for opinions on this very issue earlier? Now he's hidden them, but only after weighing up a variety of factors, many of which I suspect I outlined in my earlier post. So, yes, it is criticism, but it's reasoned criticism given with a measure of sympathy and understanding. I suspect Pinch is big enough to take it, and I also suspect he's probably already beaten himself up a bit over the mistake. Slainte.


It's okay, none taken. I welcome all comments - critique or complimentary.

I understand you're not fond of my solution, but this solution wasn't born through 'calculatory anomaly' because time is no issue with this commission. I am working to an hourly rate and a completion date is open. I obviously won't be charging the time it's taken me to carry out these revisions.

I decided on option (2) for cosmetic reasons only. I was intrigued with this option and I very much like the end results. I do understand however, someone might suspect a cover-up or 'compromise', but I would feel this to be a judgement. If I was browsing a stately house (for example) and I examined a finely made piece which had drawers like the above, I personally wouldn't assume 'compromise'. But, if the piece showed other give away signs and the work generally lacked finesse, I would lean more towards the work being compromised which would arouse my doubt to the maker's integrity and ethics. As a former experienced and published designer, I've learnt projects often evolve during the build and subsequently design themselves. I'm not making excuses for my mistake in making the drawers too narrow, but going with a solution which I felt (and feel) to be an attractive solution. I can still make a new pair of drawers albeit to my financial detriment, but I have no problems with this.

My clients will be viewing the work once the top is finished and I will be totally honest with them. If their preference is a new pair of drawers, I shall happily make them.


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