Bespoke Kitchen and Utility

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promhandicam
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Bespoke Kitchen and Utility

Post by promhandicam » Sun Oct 13, 2019 6:47 pm

Earlier this year I completed my first bespoke kitchen and utility and the customer has kindly sent me some photos now that the decorating has been finished. It was quite an undertaking, not least because of the size but also because the customer in question was our very own RogerM's daughter and son in law. Roger has posted separately his contribution of an island, and we liaised closely on the design.

The carcases were made from 18mm egger platinum mfc with the exception of the display units which were oak veneered mdf. Beaded face frames were made from solid maple using the JonnyD method of making the joints. Doors and drawer fronts were made from mrmdf, the cornice from solid oak and plinths from oak veneered mdf. Most of the drawer boxes were Hafele Moovit MX with the exception of the large pan drawers which are blum to enable them to have deeper drawer boxes. Oak was finished with Osmo and the face frames and doors / drawer fronts were sprayed in the workshop with Tikkurila Helmi furniture paint colour matched to Neptune Sage and Neptune Shell. Worktops were supplied by a local company, Stoneworx, and are Classic Quartz - Leros. All in all the kitchen and utility took me a total of 350 hours to make, finish and fit.

I'm really happy with the end result, although there were one or two sleepless nights along the way, but more importantly the customers are very happy too!
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Meccarroll
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Re: Bespoke Kitchen and Utility

Post by Meccarroll » Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:35 pm

Well I hope you don't mind me saying your work does look very professional. I like the handles on the lower units and think the time taken was not bad considering the size of the kitchen and units involved, I'm pleased to say I'm quite envious. Great job!

woodsmith
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Re: Bespoke Kitchen and Utility

Post by woodsmith » Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:14 am

Very nice job, everyone should be well pleased.
Keith

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Re: Bespoke Kitchen and Utility

Post by promhandicam » Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:42 pm

Thanks chaps!

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Re: Bespoke Kitchen and Utility

Post by Meccarroll » Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:20 am

Hi Steve I wonder if you could enlighten me a little about the paint you used: Tikkurila Helmi furniture paint.

I have been using "Acid Catalysed paint" (originally being told that it needed no special precautions for H&S) but on doing some reading about the product `I found it can be quite damaging to health if the correct precautions are not adhered to. It could be Carcinogenic and after spraying gives of a very pungent smell for quite some time (days).

I took a look at the data sheets for your paint "Tikkurila Helm" and it seems fairly safe in comparison the Acid Catalysed paint. When I use Acid Cat I find it dries fairly quickly and is touch dry in about 5 minutes or so, it is possible to de-nib and re-spray the same day if needed and can be handled with care within an hour. the down side is the health issues and the smell that lingers for days. Initial hardening is quick but it does take about a month to fully adhere the the undercoat and fully harden.

What is the Tikkurila Helm paint like to spray, how long before it is touch dry and able to be moved from the original spray position. what is it like to spray, do you need to spray one item at a time or can you spray a line up of items? With some paints they dry that quick that any overspray landing on a item will not melt into the newly sprayed item but stick to it making it like a sand paper finish. When paints dry quickly I only spray one item at a time but for slow drying paint I can usually do several items. What's a safe time to allow before final fitting and heavy handling of the sprayed item.

Just trying to get a general idea Steve as I think I might move over from A/C.

Cheers Mark

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Re: Bespoke Kitchen and Utility

Post by promhandicam » Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:10 pm

Hi Mark.

Thanks for all the questions. Before I try to answer them this is my set up for spraying:
spraying.jpg
I usually use Morrells Waterbourne lacquers, but I've used Tikkurila Helmi on two jobs and I've been very pleased with the results. The reason for choosing it rather than using Morrells is that it can be applied by hand (roller or brush) as well as being sprayed, and the results from both are very good.

My answers to your questions are in bold.

I took a look at the data sheets for your paint "Tikkurila Helm" and it seems fairly safe in comparison the Acid Catalysed paint. I still wear a mask but there is very little odour whilst spraying and the finished items don't have any noticeable smell.

What is the Tikkurila Helm paint like to spray, how long before it is touch dry and able to be moved from the original spray position. what is it like to spray, do you need to spray one item at a time or can you spray a line up of items?For my setup Earlex HV6900 HVLP I followed the manufacturers advice and thinned with 10% water and used a 2mm needle on larger panels and a 1.5 on smaller stuff. As you can see from the above photo, I have a rack that I allow things to dry on and I find that If I have at least 10 or 12 items by the time I've finished the last then the first can be flipped over and sprayed. I move things I've sprayed immediately and transfer to the drying rack. I would usually wait at least an hour before lightly denibbing and doing a second coat.

With some paints they dry that quick that any overspray landing on a item will not melt into the newly sprayed item but stick to it making it like a sand paper finish. As long as the drying rack is a couple of meters away I dont' have any problem with the overspray affecting the finish, however it obviously needs to be removed before subsequent coats

When paints dry quickly I only spray one item at a time but for slow drying paint I can usually do several items. What's a safe time to allow before final fitting and heavy handling of the sprayed item. I would leave 24 hours ideally before fitting hardware and I wouldn't stack the items either for 24 hours.

Just trying to get a general idea Steve as I think I might move over from A/C. I've only ever sprayed WB finishes as I don't have extraction or a dedicated area to spray in - I use the corridor outside my workshop. That said,I am very pleased with the results I get with both Morrells and Tikkurila although I have never attempted a high gloss finish - I usually go for 20% sheen. Just to give you an idea of drying times, I spend about 6 hours spraying all the stuff you can see in the photo (and some more) and that was 2 coats of Morrells 20% White WB lacquer on both sides for most of the components. I would expect the same from Tikkurila Helmi

Hope this helps, but feel free to ask anything else.

Cheers Steve

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Re: Bespoke Kitchen and Utility

Post by Roger-M » Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:35 pm

For obvious reasons I am more than a little "partisan", but Steve has done a cracking good job here! My daughter provided the basic design, but I was able to deflect her away from some of her less practical ideas and present Steve with a sketch plan of something that was actually "buildable", and he then made a few further practical amendments to take in to account the time and budget available, and these have worked out well. It is intended that the glass-fronted cupboards will eventually have glass shelves so that illumination spreads to the bottom, but these will follow.

Steve and I liaised over design so that the island would match, and I am very happy to confirm that my daughter and son in law are very happy with the result. In particular, as this was just one small part of a much bigger project managing a large self-build home whilst getting to grips with a new job and the birth of a second child in the middle, they felt that they were in safe hands, that the end result would be good, and Steve could be relied upon to just get on with building one of the key parts of their new home and finish the project on time within a very tight schedule, and within budget. On that he delivered "in spades".

It was a pleasure working with you on this one Steve. Thanks for making this part of the project so "worry free" for my daughter and son-in-law, and if you want it to, I hope it leads to more of the same!
Cheers, Roger

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Re: Bespoke Kitchen and Utility

Post by Meccarroll » Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:24 am

promhandicam wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:10 pm
Hi Mark.

Thanks for all the questions. Before I try to answer them this is my set up for spraying:......................................................................................Hope this helps, but feel free to ask anything else.

Cheers Steve
Yes Steve, very very helpful indeed and how very kind of you to take the time and patience to answer all my questions in full.

Working in such a confined space with no extraction I suspect that you don't get much overspray from your HVLP system. Since reading your reply I have watched a few Utube videos of operators using the HVLP systems and there seems to be much less overspray from a HVLP gun in comparison to a conventional spray gun systems. I have a conventional spray gun, DeVilbiss FLG5, it's quite a nice gun but can create quite a lot of overspray. I'm now considering buying a HVLP gun as it may be better safer for working with and save on material too. Many thank's Steve.

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Re: Bespoke Kitchen and Utility

Post by woodsmith » Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:44 pm

I've got a DeVilbiss HVLP gun which works from a compressor and I get quite a bit of overspray so I assume the dedicated HVLP systems like the Earlex must create less?
Keith

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Re: Bespoke Kitchen and Utility

Post by Meccarroll » Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:28 am

woodsmith wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:44 pm
I've got a DeVilbiss HVLP gun which works from a compressor and I get quite a bit of overspray so I assume the dedicated HVLP systems like the Earlex must create less?
I have checked on my gun (FLG5) and it's a "compliant" gun meaning it's supposed to put more paint on the object than in the air in the same way a HVLP gun does. I think I may need to be more careful about setting up my spraying to obtain the best results in future.

I have been thinking about a turbine setup so have recently made some enquiries to the technical department of Morrels and here is a general summary:
If using a compressor, you really need to check the pressure at the gun not the tank when spraying to ensure you are putting the correct air pressure through, also the viscosity of the paint needs to be correct before the paint is applied. Some of the HVLP guns do require a lot of air some don't. The turbine systems are generally setups for lower volume contracts and have lower output so do usually have less air pressure at the gun and less overspray. They can sometimes struggle though with water based paints or emulsions but cope quite well with none coloured paint even water based. A turbine with more stages (say 5) will generally perform better with heavier paints than one with fewer stages (say 2). Water base paints can be thinned to help the spray system cope but thinning water based paints need care as thinning occurs quicker than with solvent paints. Water based paints are not such a fire hazard as solvent based paints.

Which DeVilbiss is it and what's the compressor size if you don't mind woodsmith?

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Re: Bespoke Kitchen and Utility

Post by woodsmith » Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:19 pm

It's a DeVilbiss ADV-G510-18, Advance gravity gun kit TT, the compressor is a 50 litre, 3hp, belt driven nominally 13 cu ft/min and I have a wall mounted pressure regulator in the spray room so I can set the pressure to suit the paint I'm using. Can't say that I would recommend this gun though, it does a nice job but there is quite a lot of overspray. I nearly bought the Fuji system but as I already had the compressor it made more sense to go for the much cheaper DeVilbiss. Then again I've never tried the Fuji so it may not be any better?
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Re: Bespoke Kitchen and Utility

Post by Meccarroll » Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:10 am

woodsmith wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:19 pm
I nearly bought the Fuji system but as I already had the compressor it made more sense to go for the much cheaper DeVilbiss. Then again I've never tried the Fuji so it may not be any better?
I think Steves setup is one of the higher powered Earlex systems, he seems to like it and it obviously does a good enough job to keep his customers happy. From what Steve has written I'd say he obtains very little overspray which must translate to a saving on paint. I think Steve did very well to make spray and install the units in 350 hours, he is very efficient at managing his workflow.

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