Past project, tangent handrail

[thatsnotafestool]

Deleted thanks to Oldboy's consistent patronising arrogance

[Oldboy22]

Yes but why?

[Oldboy22]

Here’s the drawing showing thickness of material required and application of the two templates.

[Oldboy22]

Here’s the same drawing with the template hinged in red to show positioning.

[Oldboy22]

I'm a Joiner and I've been watching the thread with interest, I did ask a question back on page 6 but I think it got buried under all the noise
[/quote]

Sure.


Say you’ve got an existing curved stairway made from concrete blocks and rendered over that you need to make a curved handrail for to go between a jewel on each end, how best would it be to lay this out, bearing in mind that the curve of the concrete “string” possibly isn’t absolutely perfect.

I was thinking a couple of datum lines square relative to the stair and make measurements every 100mm or so of the curve amount and the height gained, but I’m totally stabbing in the dark.

Sorry Trevanion you did get lost in the noise and I apologise. If you have an equal pitch say all the treads are 250mm and rise are all 180 and it’s continues floor to floor you could laminate it straight onto the concrete wall that way it would follow the shape of the render perfectly, once made and glue dried it could be removed to clean up and possibly mould too. Laminating is not very successful if the pitch changes. So more information would be beneficial

[Oldboy22]

Here’s proof that drawing an ellipse by any legitimate means is equal to developing an ellipse from the plan plotting points, the more points you develop the more accurate it is drawing your freehand ellipse.

Any questions from anyone not ignoring me

[Oldboy22]

Back in May I posted about how little input there was from members.

Apparently there are over 5000 members.

There are now nearly 21000 views on this post and the number of members has nearly tripled to 15000 but still no input, why bother to join a forum if you don’t participate? You can view everything without joining.

From confused member.

[Oldboy22]

I’ve decided to post a series of drawings over the next week or so with handrails following different plan and elevation situations, like acute and obtuse plan layouts for equal pitch stairs, level to pitch stairs and pitch to level stairs, the drawings are all different the bevels will also be shown.

I know most people won’t ever build anything like this but I want it to on the internet for people who do, it might help someone.

I decided to to start with these as there has already been a lot of discussion about equal and unequal pitch stairs over a 90deg plan radius, and of course the single twist level to pitch, and pitch to level quarter turn over a quarter turn. So no need to go over this again.

My belief is all these drawings are correct but if you know different please speak up I will not be offended I’m learning all the time too.

[Oldboy22]

First of all I want to reaffirm the importance of the ellipse. In handrail work where the handrail plan is part of a circle the development as the stairs rise is an ellipse, it’s not a random curve between two points and just as the tangents kiss the radius in the plan the ellipse kisses the tangents in the development, if it doesn’t there is something wrong!. One very good reason for this is you want the centre line of the the handrail to be exactly over the centre of the string or balusters or they won’t be plumb.

A simple way of developing an ellipse.

[Oldboy22]

I’ve just noticed a certain member has post on what is possibly called the other side part of his project, I wish there was as much input on this site, it’s dead by comparison. I know most of them frequent this site too but don’t speak up, I’m confused as to why?. Some of the advice is dubious at most and would like to challenge them politely on this forum.

I don’t think it’s just my posts, it seems to be all posts. Has something gone on in the past I have no knowledge off ?.

[Oldboy22]

Here’s the first drawing in the series, acute plan with unequal pitch.

[Trevanion]

Back in May I posted about how little input there was from members.

Apparently there are over 5000 members.

There are now nearly 21000 views on this post and the number of members has nearly tripled to 15000 but still no input, why bother to join a forum if you don’t participate? You can view everything without joining.

From confused member.

I’ve just noticed a certain member has post on what is possibly called the other side part of his project, I wish there was as much input on this site, it’s dead by comparison. I know most of them frequent this site too but don’t speak up, I’m confused as to why?. Some of the advice is dubious at most and would like to challenge them politely on this forum.

I don’t think it’s just my posts, it seems to be all posts. Has something gone on in the past I have no knowledge off ?.

I participate more over on Woodhaven2 though I do look here on occasion, I agree this place is a ghost town by comparison but some of that may be down to the fact posts by new members have to be approved by an administrator/moderator before appearing, my own initial three posts before they were approved took over a month to appear on the forum, by which time the conversation on those threads had long passed. There may be 15000 members, but only about 2500 of them have ever made a post, the rest are either people who have never bothered to post, are in the process of having their posts approved, or they could be spam bots that do bombard forums like these and that's why the post-approval system is in place. If you look at the member's list and filter it by the people who have joined most recently, you will see that there are around 60 people that have joined so far today, but you can see that they are all spam accounts by the fact that all the names are completely randomised letters, and there was 80 more yesterday, and the day before, and so on...

It appears to have been going on for a while now and I imagine it's almost impossible for the administrators/moderators to be able to discern between the genuine individuals that join up and these spam bots, the ratio seems to be one genuine person per 200 spam accounts, it would take the administrators/moderators a lot of time to filter through these, and they're only people with their own lives to live, they don't get paid to do it.

You could always join up over on Woodhaven2 or UKWorkshop if you're looking for more conversation, although I would be careful if you're just going into it simply to dispute others' opinions.

[Oldboy22]

Thanks trevanion for your explanation on the numbers verses the comments etc that makes perfect sense to me , I didn’t realise that’s that’s what was going on.

As far as the comment regarding me disputing other peoples opinions, where did that come from?. If someone ask my opinion and they don’t like or disagree that’s fine . But I’m not going to agree custard is S*#t just so everyone is happy and snuggly , if what I’m saying is wrong tell me I’ll respect you for it, if you want me to follow everyone over the cliff, just to keep everyone happy it’s not going to happen. No one is going to learn anything without disagreeing from time to time

I have only ever been respectful and thanked everyone who has commented on my posts , even the most frustrating posters.

[Trevanion]

As far as the comment regarding me disputing other peoples opinions, where did that come from?. If someone ask my opinion and they don’t like or disagree that’s fine .

Well, it just came across like that in your post here:

I’ve just noticed a certain member has post on what is possibly called the other side part of his project, I wish there was as much input on this site, it’s dead by comparison. I know most of them frequent this site too but don’t speak up, I’m confused as to why?. Some of the advice is dubious at most and would like to challenge them politely on this forum.

All I was merely saying is if you're only going over to the other forum to "challenge" other people from the outset you may be met with a cold reception, no matter how polite you are. Constructive criticism and discussion are welcomed, but arguments and escalation aren't tolerated, which I'm not saying you will argue and escalate, but it's worth noting as so not to get off on the wrong foot if your intention is to challenge other people's "dubious" advice.

[Oldboy22]

Thanks Trvanion for your post, I have no intention of joining the other side, if I have come across raspy on occasion on this thread it is because I’m passionate about tangent handrailing and to see it abused by some is very frustrating.

[woodsmith]

I’m a moderator on another forum that is quieter than this one but gets lots of views as people find the info they need then leave without posting. It’s probably the same here.

[Oldboy22]

I’m a moderator on another forum that is quieter than this one but gets lots of views as people find the info they need then leave without posting. It’s probably the same here.

Thanks Keith

[Oldboy22]

Second drawing in series, acute plan lower level tangent.

[Oldboy22]

This is the last of the acute plan drawings I’ve done, the only one of the acute plan drawings missed is an equal pitch, but anyone understanding my drawings so far could probably work out how to do that.

Anyone glazing over yet lol.

[Oldboy22]

Good morning all tangent hand-railing enthusiast’s and lurkers.

This is the first of the obtuse plan layout’s, this one is an equal pitch drawing.
If your not understanding anything, just ask if I can help I will.

[Oldboy22]

Quick note to everyone I’m not say this is the only way to draw these, it’s my way and it’s a bit of a miss match but I find easier.

[Oldboy22]

This is probably last post on this thread, I will help anyone who posts in the future if I can but I’m not an expert and do make mistakes, my previous drawing was slightly wrong I noticed, so wanted to put a corrected drawing up.
Brian

[Oldboy22]

I know I said I probably wouldn’t post again but this is something everyone who’s interested in this type of work even if you can’t understand it, will find interesting. No geometry.

I came across these videos by custom Handrails and I found it very interesting.

https://youtu.be/FuFFzv2w4Kw

I started with the second video in his shop tour as it shows pretty much everything that was talked about in the post but mostly ignored by people who know better, hope you find it interesting.
Brian

[Oldboy22]

Here’s the latest video in” custom handrails “ journey into tangent hand-railing, his method uses a lot of the same steps as I do but as you will see it’s still very hard to follow , his method of getting the bevels is what I refer to as the Mowatt method and has not been discussed on this thread, anyone interested in finding the bevels that way I’m happy to give some clarification.

Anyway still a good watch for anyone interested in this subject .

https://youtu.be/OBeVE-ZoTyg

[Oldboy22]

After re-watching his video I dispute his bevel method although not wrong in development he is taking the co-angle and must be using it from a vertical edge, normally angles are applied from the horizontal (top) (bottom) surface.

God I’ve learned a lot over the years to notice things like that , unless you know different .

[Oldboy22]

I’ve got some spare time on my hands so going to get controversial again.

Regarding the staircase upgrade post.
He had some very good advice from plenty of posters and of course myself, he chose to ignore most of it. I feel I have a right to my opinion after spending hours and days walking him through the geometry after all what’s the point of a forum if you can’t say anything for fear of getting swore at for pointing out the truth.
I did say it looks better than before with the newel and it does BUT the building inspector would condemn it, there are loads of problems

It must be very weak as far as I can see it has next to no support at the the bottom in fact it’s only only fixed in one place at the top. Ideal for a fight scene in a western movie where the actors burst through the handrail.

The trip hazard on the corner has been left, the spindles look a mess and out of plumb. The other details are hard to see in the video I could go on but I’ve said enough, I’m not saying it to be unkind I’m saying what I THINK.

I guess no one else has commented because they don’t want to get verbally abused for say anything negative, but I can take it and ready for more so bring it on.

Ps not a single swear word in my in my post lol.

[thatsnotafestool]

....
Ps not a single swear word in my in my post lol.

Yeah...but there is in mine, you patronising c**t.

Go f**k yourself.

I wasn't going to post the final result but finally felt I owed it to the decent folk like Meccarroll...who I hope is OK as I've not seen him post for along time.

But if I knew that you were going to shove your unwanted nose in again then I'd not have bothered.

So I'll say again...f**k off. Go and play with your tangents...arrogant f**king know-all.

[thatsnotafestool]

And just in case your eyesight is failing because of all that furtive wanking you're doing while you're hitting the keyboard....

I'll say it again in bigger type

f**k OFF, YOU ARROGANT PATRONISING tw*t

[Oldboy22]

Correct a fool and he’ll hate you
Correct a genius and he’ll thank you.

And you are definitely are a fool.

[thatsnotafestool]

Deleted thanks to Oldboy's consistent patronising arrogance

[Trevanion]

[Oldboy22]

Ungrateful bar steward despite a request to leave I’m going nowhere, anyone who wants to talk tangent handrails feel free to post.

[Oldboy22]

Here’s Custom Handrail’s latest tangent handrail video this time he uses the ordinate method to get his template, it takes a couple of watches to get the idea or at least it did for me .

https://youtu.be/AitqOk_-Xg8

[Oldboy22]

Awesome stuff from Custom Handrails , part two.

https://youtu.be/-xYY8f4vxEI

[Oldboy22]

Hi all, a lot of people are still checking into this thread and I wanted to correct one of my drawings posted on the 25 November 2021, one of the bevels is wrong because I snapped to a nearby line instead of the inclined tangent. I’ve corrected it now and included some other methods of obtaining the bevels to prove its now correct.

Brian

[Oldboy22]

Another OMG handrail video, just show’s with enough filler and sawdust you can achieve anything .

https://youtu.be/bwGiYDzWSUI

[Oldboy22]

I’ve decided to post a few drawings on how to obtain bevels for tangent handrails, they can be difficult and easy to get wrong, I’m going to use one drawing with the same dimensions, each method used should result in the same bevels, therefore proving they are correct. It would be nice if someone copies the drawing to see if they come up with the same angles.

But I’m not expecting anyone too lol.
Brian

Here’s the layout I’m using.

[Oldboy22]

First bevel and probably the easiest.

Strike an arc from B to just kiss the inclined tangent at C ( it should be at 90 deg to the extended inclined tangent) and rotate to the base line at D, draw a line from D to P , and you can measure the angle as shown in orange.

This angle would be used (60.2deg) at the top of the wreath to get the twist needed, in our example the bevel only applies to the top as we have an unequal pitched handrail.

If you was drawing an equal pitched handrail this bevel would be used both ends and is developed the same way.

How to get the lower bevel to follow.

Brian

[Meccarroll]

This was a good post although I did not understand your drawing method. I'm not sure I'd want to learn it either as the one I used worked just fine. Maybe in the near future we could revive the subject in a new thread.

[Oldboy22]

This was a good post although I did not understand your drawing method. I'm not sure I'd want to learn it either as the one I used worked just fine. Maybe in the near future we could revive the subject in a new thread.

No problem I’m not asking anyone to learn my method but at nearly 50,000 view’s someone is looking regularly and I have time on my hands so why not, it’s fun for me.