Router cutter for CNC work in melomine

General wood working tips, tricks and ideas. Anything that doesn't belong elsewhere can be discussed here.
Post Reply
Meccarroll
Subscriber
Posts: 1220
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:37 am
Contact:

Router cutter for CNC work in melomine

Post by Meccarroll »

Hi all, I'm currently expanding my working and theoretical knowledge of CNC Routers and am starting to look at the practical uses of the machine. One practical use would be machining cabinet profiles out of melamine faced mdf or chipboard. In my early days as a carpenter I tried using High Speed Steel router cutters for profiling melamine faced chipboard but they blunted very quickly. Does anyone know what type of cutter would keep it edge while profiling melamine faced chipboard on a CNC router?

Cheers Mark
cncpaul
Subscriber
Posts: 1134
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:34 pm
Location: Wild Atlantic Way

Re: Router cutter for CNC work in melomine

Post by cncpaul »

Mark

The best cutter by far are Diamond coated, they can be the replaceable type or sharpen-able and very expensive but mostly used in mass production
The next type would be solid carbide either straight flute and spiral these come in up cut and down cut or compression, the later is a combination of up and down cut in one cutter these reduce the chipping on top and bottom faces.
I am not a lover of melamine faces chipboard cut on a cnc, it leaves a ragged edge to the chipboard, not great for edge banding. l have not tried the Diamond coated on MFC.
Small production of cabinets with MFC would be best suited to a good panel saw with a scribing blade giving a far better edge finish then use a cnc to machine drill holes and cutouts for fittings, melamine faced MDF would be fine to machine all the processes on the cnc.

My choice for Cutting Melamine faced MDF would be an 8mm compression cutter, this has an up cut tip around 7-8mm long, on a 18mm panel you would cut in two passes of 9mm this would but the down cut into the top face, the second pass would the cut the bottom face with the up cut portion of the cutter.
Paul

If you only have a hammer then everything looks like a nail
Meccarroll
Subscriber
Posts: 1220
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:37 am
Contact:

Re: Router cutter for CNC work in melomine

Post by Meccarroll »

cncpaul wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 10:21 am Mark

The best cutter by far are Diamond coated, they can be the replaceable type or sharpen-able and very expensive but mostly used in mass production
The next type would be solid carbide either straight flute and spiral these come in up cut and down cut or compression, the later is a combination of up and down cut in one cutter these reduce the chipping on top and bottom faces.
I am not a lover of melamine faces chipboard cut on a cnc, it leaves a ragged edge to the chipboard, not great for edge banding. l have not tried the Diamond coated on MFC.
Small production of cabinets with MFC would be best suited to a good panel saw with a scribing blade giving a far better edge finish then use a cnc to machine drill holes and cutouts for fittings, melamine faced MDF would be fine to machine all the processes on the cnc.

My choice for Cutting Melamine faced MDF would be an 8mm compression cutter, this has an up cut tip around 7-8mm long, on a 18mm panel you would cut in two passes of 9mm this would but the down cut into the top face, the second pass would the cut the bottom face with the up cut portion of the cutter.
Thank you Paul for the very detailed reply. I am really grateful to you for giving such an informed reply which is very helpful. Now as if you have not already answered enough, I wonder if you would please help me out a bit further: I am trying to find a cutter that cuts MDF on a CNC without furring the edges of the cut, advise please if you can Paul?
cncpaul
Subscriber
Posts: 1134
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:34 pm
Location: Wild Atlantic Way

Re: Router cutter for CNC work in melomine

Post by cncpaul »

No problem Mark, I use Rennie Tool Co and Wealdon Tools they both have a great selection of quality tooling at a fair price.

The cutter l use for your situation would be a SOLID CARBIDE 2 FLUTE UP DOWN COMPRESSION ROUTER BIT 8mm x 32mm, they also come in other length options
Paul

If you only have a hammer then everything looks like a nail
Meccarroll
Subscriber
Posts: 1220
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:37 am
Contact:

Re: Router cutter for CNC work in melomine

Post by Meccarroll »

cncpaul wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 10:59 pm No problem Mark, I use Rennie Tool Co and Wealdon Tools they both have a great selection of quality tooling at a fair price.

The cutter l use for your situation would be a SOLID CARBIDE 2 FLUTE UP DOWN COMPRESSION ROUTER BIT 8mm x 32mm, they also come in other length options
Thank you again Paul.

I guess this is the type of tooling you mean Paul. I have a cheap carbide one on order from China just to try it out. As you say maybe use melamine faced MDF in place of melamine faced chipboard.

At the moment I am just getting used to playing around with my CNC router and playing with the CAM software. I have calibrated the CNC in MACH3 and it seems pretty accurate so could be very useful for templates once I get the hang of using the software.

I am using soft limits with the machine at the moment as the one I purchased ready built did not come with any limit switches. I'll install limit switches a bit later down the line.

Last night I made a touch probe from a piece of aluminium angle and some two core wire and to my astonishment it worked. Connecting it up to the controller pins was quite easy and configuring MACH3 was too however finding a pre-written Script to make it work was quite a bit harder but I eventually found this one and it worked just fine:

'*************************************************************************************************************
'*************************** Z Axis Touch Plate Script For Mach3 R3.043 ********************************
'******FONT***************** For Both INCH And MM Units | Rev22 July/2022 ********************************
'*********Courier*********** CHARLIE SARSFIELD ********************************
'*************************** www.YouTube.com/sunny5rising ********************************
'*************************** [email protected] ********************************
'*************************************************************************************************************
'******************** TEST SCRIPT CAUTIOUSLY ****** USE SCRIPT AT YOUR OWN RISK ***********************
'*************************************************************************************************************
'*************************************************************************************************************
'******************** To Support My Work: http://PayPal.Me/CharlieCNC ***********************
'*************************************************************************************************************

'----- USER VARIABLES FOR DISTANCES, FEED RATES, TOUCH PLATES, OPTIONS ---------------------------------------
If GetParam("Units") = 0 Then
'* METRIC VALUES *
VarUnits = " MM"
VarMaxDistance = -25.4 'MAX Z TRAVEL * ALWAYS MAKE NEGATIVE
VarFeedRate = 127 'MM/MIN DOWN FEEDRATE
VarStandOff = 1.27 'STANDOFF DISTANCE ABOVE PROBE CONTACT
VarTouchPlate = 20.066 'PRIMARY/DEFAULT TOUCH PLATE THICKNESS
VarSecondPlate = 0.038 'SECONDARY TOUCH PLATE THICKNESS * OPTION FOR CHOICE DIALOG
VarThirdPlate = 0 'TERTIARY TOUCH PLATE THICKNESS * OPTION FOR CHOICE DIALOG
Else
'* SAE VALUES *
VarUnits = " INCH"
VarMaxDistance = -1.0 'MAX Z TRAVEL * ALWAYS MAKE NEGATIVE
VarFeedRate = 5 'INCH/MIN DOWN FEEDRATE
VarStandOff = 0.05 'STANDOFF DISTANCE ABOVE PROBE CONTACT
VarTouchPlate = 0.79 'PRIMARY/DEFAULT TOUCH PLATE THICKNESS
VarSecondPlate = 0.0015 'SECONDARY TOUCH PLATE THICKNESS * OPTION FOR CHOICE DIALOG
VarThirdPlate = 0 'TERTIARY TOUCH PLATE THICKNESS * OPTION FOR CHOICE DIALOG
End If

VarRunTheChoice = 1 'RUN PLATE CHOICE DIALOG? 0=NO 1=YES

VarDelayInSec = 0 'DEFAULT SECONDS TO DELAY MOTION
VarBeepOrSpeak = 2 'COUNTDOWN AUDIO: 0=NONE 1=BEEP 2=SPEAK
VarSecOfAudio = 5 'COUNTDOWN SECOND AT WHICH AUDIO BEGINS

VarCompleteAudio = 3 'END SIGNAL: 0=NONE 1=BEEP 2=SPEAK 3=WAV_AUDIO_FILE
VarWavAudioFile = "C:\MACH3\ToolCompleteSND1.wav" 'WAV_AUDIO_FILE LOCATION

'*************************************************************************************************************
'*************************************************************************************************************

'----- GET INITIAL ENVIRONMENT SETTINGS FOR LATER REINSTATEMENT ----------------------------------------------
VarInitialLinearMode = GetOemDRO(819) 'LINEAR MODE G00/G01
VarInitialDistMode = GetOemLED(48) 'DISTANCE MODE G90/G91
VarInitialFeedRate = GetOemDRO(818) 'FEEDRATE
VarInitialInhibit = GetParam("ZInhibitOn") 'Z INHIBIT STATUS OFF/ON
VarInitialZScale = GetParam("ZScale") 'Z SCALE VALUE
VarInitialFRO = GetOemDRO(821) 'FEEDRATE OVERRIDE PERCENTAGE
Message "" 'CLEAR STATUS LINE TEXT


'----- CHECK DIGITIZE STATE; 0=CLEAR 1=ACTIVE ----------------------------------------------------------------
If GetOemLED (825) <> 0 Then
RET = MachMsg("Digitize Status Not Clear. Check Probe/Connections And Try Again!","*** ERROR! ***",0)
End 'END SCRIPT
End If


'----- CHECK IF USER WANTS TO RUN PLATE CHOICE DIALOG --------------------------------------------------------
If VarRunTheChoice = 1 Then RunTheThing 'RUN SUBROUTINE


'----- ACTIVATE TIME DELAY IF USED ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
If VarDelayInSec <> 0 Then
Do Until VarDelayInSec = 0 'LOOP UNTIL SECONDS = ZERO
Message VarDelayInSec 'DISPLAY SECONDS VALUE IN STATUS LINE
If VarDelayInSec < VarSecOfAudio + 1 Then
Select Case VarBeepOrSpeak
Case 1 'OPTION BEEP
Beep
Case 2 'OPTION SPEAK
Speak(VarDelayInSec)
End Select
End If
Sleep 1000 'PAUSE 1 SEC.
VarDelayInSec = VarDelayInSec - 1 'REDUCE SECONDS BY 1 AFTER EACH LOOP
Loop
End If


'----- PREPARE FOR MOVE ----- MOVE PROBE DOWN TOWARD CONTACT -------------------------------------------------
SetParam("ZInhibitOn",0) 'TURN Z INHIBIT OFF
SetParam("ZScale",1.0) 'SET Z SCALE TO 1.0
DoOemButton(1014) 'CANCEL FEED OVERRIDE
SetOemDRO(802,0) 'ZERO Z AXIS DRO
Sleep 200 'DELAY TO ALLOW DRO TO CHANGE
Message "Auto Tool Zero Running..."

Code "#100=" &VarMaxDistance
Code "#101=" &VarFeedRate

Code "G91 G31 Z#100 F#101" '*MOVE DOWN @ FEEDRATE
While IsMoving() 'WAIT UNTIL MOVE IS COMPLETE BEFORE PROCEEDING
SLEEP 100
Wend
Sleep 200

'----- GET Z CONTACT POSITION AND TEST FOR MAX TRAVEL ------ MOVE TO STANDOFF ------ UPDATE Z AXIS DRO -------
Code "#102=" &VarStandOff

If GetOemDRO(802) <= VarMaxDistance + .001 Then
RET = MachMsg("Maximum Travel Reached. Reposition Z Axis Closer To Touch Plate And Try Again!","*** OOPS! ***",0)
Message ""
RETURNSTATE 'CALL REINSTATE SUBROUTINE
End 'END SCRIPT
Else
SetOemDRO(802,0) 'ZERO Z AXIS DRO
Sleep 200
Code "G91 G1 Z#102 F[#101*2]" '*MOVE TO STANDOFF DISTANCE AT TWICE FEEDRATE
While IsMoving ()
Wend
SetOemDRO(802, VarStandOff + VarTouchPlate) 'SET Z DRO (STANDOFF + PLATE THICKNESS)
Sleep 200
Select Case VarCompleteAudio
Case 1 'OPTION BEEP
Beep
Case 2 'OPTION SPEAK
Speak("Tool Zero Complete.")
Case 3 'OPTION WAV_AUDIO_FILE
PlayWave(VarWavAudioFile)
End Select
Message "Auto Tool Zero Complete! ***Remove Touch Plate***"
End If
RETURNSTATE 'CALL REINSTATE SUBROUTINE
End 'END SCRIPT

'******************************************* SUBROUTINES BELOW ***********************************************

'----- SUBROUTINE TO RETURN INITIAL SETTINGS -----------------------------------------------------------------
Sub RETURNSTATE
'REINSTATE INITIAL FEEDRATE
Code "F" &VarInitialFeedRate

'REINSTATE DISTANCE MODE 0=G91 -1=G90
If VarInitialDistMode = 0 Then Code "G91" Else Code "G90"

'REINSTATE LINEAR MODE 0=G00 1=G01
If VarInitialLinearMode = 0 Then Code "G00" Else Code "G01"

'REINSTATE Z INHIBIT STATUS 0=OFF 1=ON
If VarInitialInhibit = 1 Then SetParam("ZInhibitOn",1)

'SET Z SCALE TO INITIAL VALUE
If VarInitialZScale <> 1.0 Then SetParam("ZScale",VarInitialZScale)

'SET FEEDRATE OVERRIDE TO INITIAL VALUE
If VarInitialFRO <> 100 Then SetOemDRO(821,VarInitialFRO)
End Sub


'----- DIALOG SUBROUTINE FOR TOUCH PLATE CHOICE AND TIME DELAY -----------------------------------------------
Sub RunTheThing
Dim PlateList$ (2) 'DECLARE 3 ITEM ARRAY FOR PLATE SIZE LIST
If GetParam("Units") = 0 Then
'MM FORMATTING FOR LISTBOX
PlateList (0) = Format(VarTouchPlate,"00.000") 'FILL ARRAY 1
PlateList (1) = Format(VarSecondPlate,"00.000") 'FILL ARRAY 2
PlateList (2) = Format(VarThirdPlate,"00.000") 'FILL ARRAY 3
Else
'INCH FORMATTING FOR LISTBOX
PlateList (0) = Format(VarTouchPlate,"0.0000") 'FILL ARRAY 1
PlateList (1) = Format(VarSecondPlate,"0.0000") 'FILL ARRAY 2
PlateList (2) = Format(VarThirdPlate,"0.0000") 'FILL ARRAY 3
End If

Dim UnitList$ (0) 'DECLARE 1 ITEM ARRAY FOR UNIT LISTBOX
UnitList (0) = VarUnits 'FILL ARRAY 1

'SETUP DIALOG CONTROLS
Begin Dialog PlateChoice 110,68,"Touch Plate"
ListBox 15,20,35,30, PlateList$(),.Lstbox2
ListBox 64,20,25,10, UnitList$(),.Listbox1
GroupBox 8,8,95,45,"Choose Plate Thickness",.GroupBox1
OKButton 57,34,37,12
Text 13,55,100,15, "Delay"
TextBox 37,55,30,10, .SecText
Text 70,55,30,15, "Seconds"
End Dialog

Dim Dlg1 As PlateChoice
Dlg1.SecText = VarDelayInSec 'FILL SECONDS TEXTBOX WITH DEFAULT VALUE

Button = Dialog (Dlg1) 'SHOW DIALOG AND WAIT FOR BUTTON REPLY

If Button = 0 Then 'IF CLOSE BUTTON
Message "Auto Tool Zero CANCELED"
End 'END SCRIPT
End If

'CHECK THAT SECONDS WAS ENTERED NUMERIC
If IsNumeric(Dlg1.SecText) = True Then
VarDelayInSec = Int(Dlg1.SecText)
Else
RET = MachMsg("***** SECONDS MUST BE ENTERED IN NUMERIC FORMAT! *****", _
" Substance Abuse Is Not Recommended ",0)
RunTheThing 'RESTART SUB
End If

'SET PLATE VARIABLE BASED ON PLATE CHOICE
PlateNum = Dlg1.Lstbox2
Select Case PlateNum
Case 0 'PRIMARY PLATE
'WILL USE PRIMARY/DEFAULT THICKNESS
Case 1 'SECONDARY PLATE
VarTouchPlate = VarSecondPlate
Case 2 'TERTIARY PLATE
VarTouchPlate = VarThirdPlate
End Select
End Sub
'*************************************************************************************************************
'*************************************************************************************************************




https://www.scosarg.com/cmt-190-up-down ... 8-l-32-s-8


Image
Attachments
Compression cutter.JPG
cncpaul
Subscriber
Posts: 1134
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:34 pm
Location: Wild Atlantic Way

Re: Router cutter for CNC work in melomine

Post by cncpaul »

That is a good price for a CMT cutter.

For speed and consistency limit switches is the quickest way to find home, l use that method or a 3 axis zero plate that is placed on the corner of your material or inside fixed stops, l used the second method when l use a base jig for cutting small components.
You should find a script for a 3 axis plate on the machsupport website.

F1F661A3-47E3-428A-A1F0-46AF3B49DF06.jpeg
This one is on Amazon for £31
Paul

If you only have a hammer then everything looks like a nail
Meccarroll
Subscriber
Posts: 1220
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:37 am
Contact:

Re: Router cutter for CNC work in melomine

Post by Meccarroll »

cncpaul wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 9:17 am That is a good price for a CMT cutter.

For speed and consistency limit switches is the quickest way to find home, l use that method or a 3 axis zero plate that is placed on the corner of your material or inside fixed stops, l used the second method when l use a base jig for cutting small components.
You should find a script for a 3 axis plate on the machsupport website.


F1F661A3-47E3-428A-A1F0-46AF3B49DF06.jpeg

This one is on Amazon for £31
Thank you for your support on this topic Paul, it has been and is still very much appreciated mate.
Post Reply