Joinerysoft

[Top Notch Joiner]

It was a joke boys! That thing where you crack a smile? You know, a bit of banter? Or as the Irish say, 'having the crack'.

That's kitchen fitters for you!

[senior]

It was a joke boys! That thing where you crack a smile? You know, a bit of banter? Or as the Irish say, 'having the crack'.

That's kitchen fitters for you!

Except it's like this really.............. imagine we are all down the pub, day after day all having a right laugh, all know each other really well and can throw insults around and crack one another up. Then this new bloke walks in stands at the bar repeating a rant over and over, most ignore him a few are polite to him, then after 5 mins he walks over and calls everyone a useless bunch of tw*ts.

Just seems and feels a bit odd.

[Top Notch Joiner]

Who called everyone a useless bunch of tw*ts?

I missed that?

[sainty]

Who called everyone a useless bunch of tw*ts?

I missed that?

I was thinking it.

[jfc]

Who called everyone a useless bunch of tw*ts?

I missed that?

I was thinking it.

You think we are a useless bunch of tw*ts ?

[sainty]

You think we are a useless bunch of tw*ts ?

I didn't say it though.

[Doug]

[mark270981]

It's craic - the Irish say craic!!

[Meccarroll]

You think we are a useless bunch of tw*ts ?

I didn't say it though.

Ok, you didn't say tw*ts, cos'....it's rude!.....useless is ok though!

[Top Notch Joiner]

It's craic - the Irish say craic!!

If senior (Mr Grumpy), ever did manage a rare smile, that's what would happen to his face. It would craic!

I'll get my coat.

[Top Notch Joiner]

It's craic - the Irish say craic!!

If senior (Mr Grumpy), ever did manage a rare smile, that's what would happen to his face. It would craic!

I'll get my coat.

[markymark]

Hi all

Yes I am in agreement with top notch joiner that joinery soft just ripped us off. It is not a payment for maintenance, they should tell you that it's a huge deposit then you just rent it year on year. They promise loads of updates and bug fixes but come up with nothing. I have spoken to lots of people that do use joinery soft and I have not heard anyone say that it is any good, its just a shame that you could not get these reviews before you part with all that money. If you are considering buying this software don't, go and have a nice holiday and save your self the stress and then come back and look else where for your software. It's very expensive and on going expensive and not that good either. Just like top notch joiner you stop paying for the maintenance package and a whole load of stuff stops working.

[mark270981]

How much is it out of interest and why did you think it was so special to warrant spending the money?

[thatsnotafestool]

How do we know markymark is not top notch joiner enrolled just to have another bitching session?

[Andys Woodshed]

How do we know markymark is not top notch joiner enrolled just to have another bitching session?

I'm sure if you gave Mark the opportunity to introduce himself and the type of joinery his company produces that would be apparent

[thatsnotafestool]

So why didn't he do this in his first post ?

[podengo]

I think joinerysoft is pretty good. Its not cheap, but then no specialist software operating in a small market is cheap.

Ive not tried any alternatives so dont know if there are any better or different joinery packages available.

[Andys Woodshed]

So why didn't he do this in his first post ?

Give him chance and he might .......

[Tomyjoiner]

How do we know markymark is not top notch joiner enrolled just to have another bitching session?

[billybuntus]

I can see this has gone on for a while and I don't want to particularly continue it but I can appreciate the frustration.

A few years back not many software companies charged a maintenance fee. Everything was generally upfront and you'd buy it outright. Some large outfits such as oracle or citrix have charged an annual support subscription for 15+ years.

I always thought it a rip off, but if they didn't generate income this way there products wouldn't be properly maintained.

I fully understand this now and support it. It makes complete sense and makes for better products. Microsoft are slowly but surely moving to this model. We pay in excess of £500,000 a year for Microsoft subscriptions (I'm in IT, not a workshop). 99% of all vendors will move to this model in the next 5 years, it's just natural progression.

I can understand why your annoyed with the company you've bought your software from. Have you thought about having some training to speed things up in terms of getting the best out of the system? We've spent years issuing 'technology' in the form of computers and software but have only recently clicked on that not many know how to use it. We call it embedding technology.

As always though if your looking to part with your hard earned then buyer beware! Treat all salesmen with the contempt they deserve.

[Meccarroll]

I can see this has gone on for a while and I don't want to particularly continue it but I can appreciate the frustration.

A few years back not many software companies charged a maintenance fee. Everything was generally upfront and you'd buy it outright. Some large outfits such as oracle or citrix have charged an annual support subscription for 15+ years.

I always thought it a rip off, but if they didn't generate income this way there products wouldn't be properly maintained.

I fully understand this now and support it. It makes complete sense and makes for better products. Microsoft are slowly but surely moving to this model. We pay in excess of £500,000 a year for Microsoft subscriptions (I'm in IT, not a workshop). 99% of all vendors will move to this model in the next 5 years, it's just natural progression.

Apple are one of the biggest names in IT and very very successful too, they don't charge an annual maintenance fee for any of the software that I use. Paying a one off fee for a version upgraded is fair because you generally have the opportunity to check out the software first to see if the upgrade suites your needs.

With a maintenance fee a customer has no idea what upgrades (if any) they are going to get in a years time. Most software packages reaches a stage where the software becomes obsolete and can't be upgraded. This happened with Apples "Final Cut Pro" video editing software, it was replaced with Apples "Final Cut Pro X". I personally think paying for version upgrades is fair but obscure maintenance fees not so fair.

Mark

[Top Notch Joiner]

Hi all

Yes I am in agreement with top notch joiner that joinery soft just ripped us off. It is not a payment for maintenance, they should tell you that it's a huge deposit then you just rent it year on year. They promise loads of updates and bug fixes but come up with nothing. I have spoken to lots of people that do use joinery soft and I have not heard anyone say that it is any good, its just a shame that you could not get these reviews before you part with all that money. If you are considering buying this software don't, go and have a nice holiday and save your self the stress and then come back and look else where for your software. It's very expensive and on going expensive and not that good either. Just like top notch joiner you stop paying for the maintenance package and a whole load of stuff stops working.

Hi there markymark,

At last, someone else who is not too impressed with Joinerysoft. Firstly, may I please ask how many employees that you have? Or are you like me, a sole trader?

I am still pissed off with myself, as much as anyone, for paying out the sums of money that I did for this software. There aren't any other Joinerysoft reviews on the internet, so this thread will hopefully provide potential purchasers with a little insight, before they shell out. In my opinion, JOINERYSOFT IS DEFINATELY NOT FOR A SOLE TRADER. In fact, I would say that you would need at least 5 employees to make it a viable purchase. Even then, don't expect it to transform your life, because it won't. If anything, it slows me down

The thing that annoys me most about Joinerysoft is, it was sold to me as a 'tool' that was going to speed up my life. Make my life simpler. IT DOESN'T! If anything, it slows me down. Yes, it does your cutting list for you, etc, etc, but by the time that I've entered all the specifications for the job in hand, then checked everything is correct (you HAVE to check everything), I had just as well had done it all on a note pad, like I used to do. In fact, if the job is a one off, or two windows, I just work it all out on a note pad. For the sash & casement window modules, the door/frame & the screen modules, I paid out the best part of £7,000 up front, then my maintanance payment was something like £900 per year, if I remember correctly. The maintanance payment, for me, was a complete joke! I phoned them maybe twice, in 3 years or so. It was becoming ridiculous that I was paying out all that money every year, for what??? A bloody U-Value calculator!!! Of course, they have now switched the calculator off, and if I have a problem with my software, I will need to pay backdated maintanance payments, before they even look at my problem. This company should not be pushing their product onto small firms. No way! That's what irritates me the most. They would have known full well, that Joinerysoft was not suitable for me, a sole trader. The maintanance info is in their T's & C's, but in my opinion, it was not made clear enough, when I made the purchase. The product itself has many glitches & flaws, but I can not fix those bugs, because I refuse to pay their annual maitanance fee, which I call the ransom. If you are considering purchasing Joinerysoft, think long and hard about it. It may work for you, it certainly hasn't worked out for me.

The marketing side of Joinersoft is as corporate as it gets! The trade magazine adverts, the trade show exhibition stand, it STINKS of money! The way that I saw it was, why should I fund all of that? That's basically what your maintanance payments will do. Pay for their all singing, all dancing, marketing campaign. It's a mugs game. BEWARE!

[thatsnotafestool]

......

Apple are one of the biggest names in IT and very very successful too, they don't charge an annual maintenance fee for any of the software that I use. Paying a one off fee for a version upgraded is fair because you generally have the opportunity to check out the software first to see if the upgrade suites your needs.

With a maintenance fee a customer has no idea what upgrades (if any) they are going to get in a years time. Most software packages reaches a stage where the software becomes obsolete and can't be upgraded. This happened with Apples "Final Cut Pro" video editing software, it was replaced with Apples "Final Cut Pro X". I personally think paying for version upgrades is fair but obscure maintenance fees not so fair.

Mark

You can't compare Apple (with sales of its software running into the billions) and a tiny company such as Joinerysoft. Apple can easily afford to amortise the cost of their software over the millions of copies that they sell. And their piggybanks are further supported by the sale of their hardware.

There are many reasons why software can't be upgraded but it's usually down to external variables such as changes in the underlying operating system or chipset. They may wish to change the look and feel wholesale and bring out a new version but that is a marketing decision.

Why are maintenance fees 'obscure' ? Users of Joinerysoft probably have a far greater input on the development of new features then say you or I on the direction that Apple take.

[Meccarroll]

......

Apple are one of the biggest names in IT and very very successful too, they don't charge an annual maintenance fee for any of the software that I use. Paying a one off fee for a version upgraded is fair because you generally have the opportunity to check out the software first to see if the upgrade suites your needs.

With a maintenance fee a customer has no idea what upgrades (if any) they are going to get in a years time. Most software packages reaches a stage where the software becomes obsolete and can't be upgraded. This happened with Apples "Final Cut Pro" video editing software, it was replaced with Apples "Final Cut Pro X". I personally think paying for version upgrades is fair but obscure maintenance fees not so fair.

Mark

1.
You can't compare Apple (with sales of its software running into the billions) and a tiny company such as Joinerysoft. Apple can easily afford to amortise the cost of their software over the millions of copies that they sell. And their piggybanks are further supported by the sale of their hardware.

2.
There are many reasons why software can't be upgraded but it's usually down to external variables such as changes in the underlying operating system or chipset. They may wish to change the look and feel wholesale and bring out a new version but that is a marketing decision.

3.
Why are maintenance fees 'obscure' ? Users of Joinerysoft probably have a far greater input on the development of new features then say you or I on the direction that Apple take.

1. Was my opinion on the merits of a one off payment for a version upgrade as opposed to paying regular maintenance fees. There was no mention of Joinery soft and I drew no comparison between them and Apple.

2.No comment here?.

3. I'm sure Joinerysoft suits some peoples budget and the way they work. I don't use it, but if it made me more money than it cost to buy and maintain I'd be silly not too. I do more sub-contract work than anything else so it's not for me I'm afraid.

Just imagine how much it would cost every year if you had to pay a maintenance fee for every bit of software that you run on your computer....£££££££ I'd like to stick to paying for upgrades at my convenience please.

Mark

[riclepp]

Has that tin of paint dried yet???

[Top Notch Joiner]

I want to make it absolutely clear that Joinerysoft does NOT speed things up!

I'm trying to get a cutting list sorted, for a sash window job. I have to check it, check it, and then check it again. By the time I've got it right, I had just as well had worked it out with a pencil a note pad!!!

7 grand, to drive yourself nuts!!!! Ahhhhhhh. Consider this a Joinerysoft review, potential customers. NOT HAPPY.

[Top Notch Joiner]

When you're setting up a bespoke job on Joinerysoft, which for me is every job, you HAVE to check everything. You then have to make final adjustments, when things aren't the way you want it, on your cutting list. Honestly, I would have done this cutting list quicker with a pencil & a note pad.

Joinerysoft will literally drive you up the wall, like it has me, this morning.

[Top Notch Joiner]

100 times quicker, in fact!

Yours,
Angry Joiner.

[mark270981]

7 grand?! Unless you have 3 or 4 people working for you and that is used full time every day I cannot see how that would benefit you?!

[senior]

This thread is cringeworthy, if I'd spent £7k on a product I couldn't use I'd keep quiet about it rather than looking like a tw*t.

[Rogerdodge]

Crikey, is it that time of year again already ?


Rog

[Top Notch Joiner]

7 grand?! Unless you have 3 or 4 people working for you and that is used full time every day I cannot see how that would benefit you?!

You're pretty much spot on, with your thinking. However, Joinerysoft continue to market their product at sole traders, in the trade press. I wish I'd had the foresight, to see what you've worked out.

[Top Notch Joiner]

This thread is cringeworthy, if I'd spent £7k on a product I couldn't use I'd keep quiet about it rather than looking like a tw*t.

It has nothing to do with not being able to use it. I am a self proficient user of the software, even if I do say so myself. My gripe is that it is not very user friendly, and is sold with the notion that it will speed your life up. It doesn't! Certainly not if you manufacture bespoke joinery, on a small scale.

If you had four or five joiners, with a bog standard set up - for example a set style of casement window, and a set style of sash window, etc, it would probably pay for itself. HOWEVER, it is aimed at the bespoke joinery trade, and things are never the same from one job to the next, in bespoke joinery. I HAVE to check things are correct with every cutting list. Most of the time, I need to go back over things and alter something. It takes up a hell of a lot of my time.

These posts of mine, on this forum, are intended to be feedback, for potential Joinerysoft customers, from the horses mouth of a sole trader. There isn't any reviews of Joinersoft online, to my knowledge, so I am posting my feedback, as a sole trading joiner, on here. I'm not sure why you have to throw your weight around on this thread, every time I post a comment? Nothing better to do? Unless you have anything worthwhile to add, may I suggest that you butt out? I don't come on here very often, but when I do, either you or that Festool chap are hovering around, adding very little worth to things. Maybe you need something else to occupy your time? Good day to you squire.

[Leveller2911]

If I had been sold a product costing £7k and it wasn't fit for purpose I'd be seriously pissed off. I fully understand the term "buyer beware" but we all need some imput,guidance,advice etc from others but the company selling Joinerysoft should have an obligation to sell their product to the people who benefit from it and the product is fit for purpose and for TNJ the product is clearly NOT fit for purpose.

On the face of it TNJ hasn't benefited at all and one must wonder why the company sold a sole trader a product not suitable for the kind of work a sole trader does. The vast majority of workshops across the UK do make bespoke work, larger companies will have a set number of profiles/styles etc and I can see the software may be of benefit. Maybe best to put it down as a bad experience and move on. I've had a couple of them, not huge amounts of money but I put them down as being all part of life.We wouldn't appreciate the good parts of life if we didn't experience the bad one.

Some of the p*ss taking on here is not called for................

PS: Bobby, regarding your post " if I'd spent £7k on a product I couldn't use I'd keep quiet about it rather than looking like a tw*t. " I'd want other guys to warn me of their experience. What benefit is it to the rest of the members to keep quiet?..........Can't see the logic in that.......

[thatsnotafestool]

If I had been sold a product costing £7k and it wasn't fit for purpose I'd be seriously pissed off.....

It depends on what the 'purpose' was. I don't think TNJ did any due diligence or involved any serious cerebral activity when he bought this product.

[Top Notch Joiner]

If I had been sold a product costing £7k and it wasn't fit for purpose I'd be seriously pissed off. I fully understand the term "buyer beware" but we all need some imput,guidance,advice etc from others but the company selling Joinerysoft should have an obligation to sell their product to the people who benefit from it and the product is fit for purpose and for TNJ the product is clearly NOT fit for purpose.

On the face of it TNJ hasn't benefited at all and one must wonder why the company sold a sole trader a product not suitable for the kind of work a sole trader does. The vast majority of workshops across the UK do make bespoke work, larger companies will have a set number of profiles/styles etc and I can see the software may be of benefit. Maybe best to put it down as a bad experience and move on. I've had a couple of them, not huge amounts of money but I put them down as being all part of life.We wouldn't appreciate the good parts of life if we didn't experience the bad one.

Some of the p*ss taking on here is not called for................

PS: Bobby, regarding your post " if I'd spent £7k on a product I couldn't use I'd keep quiet about it rather than looking like a tw*t. " I'd want other guys to warn me of their experience. What benefit is it to the rest of the members to keep quiet?..........Can't see the logic in that.......

Thanks for your support, Leveller2911. I find this sort of thing is common place on forums. You get a handful of bully boy types, who seem to spend their entire lives on the forum. They revel in throwing their weight around, offering very little worth to a thread, before derailing it altogether. These people have too much time on their hands, in my opinion.

Like you say, I spent an awful lot of money on Joinerysoft, with the intentions of it transforming my business life, for the better, and it has been a very expensive disapointment. I was hoping that it would speed things up, it hasn't. In fact, I would go as far as to say that it has dramatically slowed me down. The software is not very user friendly. Altering something, can be a right chore! You literally have to check your cutting lists, for a bespoke piece, because if you don't and you cut the timber too short, it's another expensive mistake. By the time you've set it all up, then checked it (to do that, you need to work things out in your head - which defeats the object of the software), then checked it all over, I might as well had got my note book, pencil, and calculator out!

Joinerysoft do aim their product at the bespoke joinery industry, which in my honest opinion, isn't the correct market.

Mass produced, set window/door style market, yes, Joinerysoft will work very well for you. If you have a standard set up, where the section sizes stay the same, from job to job, great. But when you make one off's, like what I do, and what ANY bespoke joinery company will do, where things change from job to job, it is very labour intense, and quite frankly, it will drive you up the bloody wall.

My biggets gripe though, is that they promote it at sole traders. They ran an advert in the trade press recently, specifically aiming it at sole traders. It isn't for a sole trader. No way! The maintanance fee is the best part of a grand, per year. I stopped paying that fee, so they removed my U-Value calculator, which as you may imagine, went down like a lead balloon. Also, if something goes wrong, I have to catch up with all of my missed maintance payments, before they will even give me the time of day. I get no updates AT ALL.... The software cost £7,000 for f**k sake! Why can't I get updates with bug fixes, etc?? It really has left a very sour taste in my mouth.

With regards doing research before I made the purchase, there was no online reviews available at all. So, it was a case of being sucked in by the all singing, all dancing, sales pitch, and put your trust in, what looks on the face of it, to be very good. The lack of online reviews, made me want to write down my feedback on this forum. Hopefully, it will prevent a small bespoke joinery firm or sole trader, from making the same expensive mistake as I have.

[senior]

Thanks for your support, Leveller2911. I find this sort of thing is common place on forums. You get a handful of bully boy types, who seem to spend their entire lives on the forum. They revel in throwing their weight around, offering very little worth to a thread, before derailing it altogether. These people have too much time on their hands, in my opinion.

5 posts in 3 months, crikey I'm f**King mad for a forum me.

The reason for my post was all you bang on about is this, you are one of the reasons this forum has died on it's ar*e, dull, repetitive, bitter drivel. You seem to be completely eaten up with malice. I do feel sorry for you and may well have supported you if you had approached it in a different manner.

I don't quite see what you are going to achieve, banging away on a forum with about 5 active members.

[tusses]

lol .. for a long time now I just get this ...

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[thatsnotafestool]

....
.....
Like you say, I spent an awful lot of money on Joinerysoft, with the intentions of it transforming my business life, for the better, and it has been a very expensive disapointment. I was hoping that it would speed things up, it hasn't. In fact, I would go as far as to say that it has dramatically slowed me down. The software is not very user friendly. Altering something, can be a right chore!

So you failed to define a basic set of User Requirements (ie what you wanted the software to do) against which you could compare the functionality of JoinerySoft and therefore make an informed decision.

You failed to do any due diligence in terms of what you were signing up to and what your contractual obligations were (ie paying an annual maintenance). Did you actually read their Terms and Conditions ?

....
Joinerysoft do aim their product at the bespoke joinery industry, which in my honest opinion, isn't the correct market.

Mass produced, set window/door style market, yes, Joinerysoft will work very well for you. If you have a standard set up, where the section sizes stay the same, from job to job, great. But when you make one off's, like what I do, and what ANY bespoke joinery company will do, where things change from job to job, it is very labour intense, and quite frankly, it will drive you up the bloody wall.

Well reading some of the reviews on their website, the size of some of the companies that are very happy with the software look to be pretty small in size...two man companies.

.
My biggets gripe though, is that they promote it at sole traders. They ran an advert in the trade press recently, specifically aiming it at sole traders. It isn't for a sole trader. No way!

Why not? Reading further, your gripe seems to be paying the maintenance fee. £1k isn't that much in the grand scheme of things - even for a sole trader unless their turnover is pitifully small. In which case, shelling out £7k for the software without having a carefully prepared business case and, as I said above a detailed set of User Requirements is just plain dumb.

.
With regards doing research before I made the purchase, there was no online reviews available at all. So, it was a case of being sucked in by the all singing, all dancing, sales pitch, and put your trust in, what looks on the face of it, to be very good. ....

So where were your critical faculties that day? It was your decision. Stop bitching.

[Tomyjoiner]

I can see TNJ's gripe. But im a sole trader, all the stuff i do is bespoke 1 offs, matching in old windows or doors, a few kitchens etc. I would not dream of paying 7k on software to make ne a cutting list!! Or to price a 1 off!! I cant understand how you thought it would help, as said above if you were constantly pricing for 5 guys in the workshop then maybe, but for 1 guy?? I can think of many other things to make my life easier than software. It doesnt take long to do a goid old rod for a cutting list. Anyhows. Shurely this is done. We have learned it is not your cup of T. An you learn by your mistakes. Chuck the disk on ebay get£20 for it gi down the offy an buy a bottle of rum an drown your sorrows. Just my pov.